Serial Cheater Has ‘Some Good Qualities’
Her husband is a serial cheater who had a 10-year affair with her friend — yet she insists he “has some good qualities.” Can she save this marriage?
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Dear Chump Lady,
My situation is almost hard to believe. I realized that as I typed it out to you.
Help me not get soft on this. I think you’re the only one who can!
Here’s a high level summary:
Husband of 26 years had a 10-year affair with a friend of mine.
Yes, a decade. She and I obviously no longer speak. I was suspicious for years but of course they both gaslighted me while openly flirting right under my nose. Finally confirmed it 4 years ago. (She texted me pics of them together a few days before Christmas, including nude pics of him).
He apologized and swore he’d break it off. So, I gave him a second chance. He initiated contact with her about 8 months later and they continued their affair for another 3 years.
He hasn’t left me, so she texted me again 3 months ago with more pics, plus rude and harassing messages.
Again, he swears he’ll end it with her.
And he said had this affair because he just needed a “friend.” (They of course were intimate.) Over the years, she transferred her daughter to the same school as our daughter the same sports teams, joined our neighborhood pool, etc.
Almost everywhere I turned, there she was. My husband knew how upset all of that made me, yet he continued to see her and lie to me about it. He said he didn’t mean to hurt me (famous last words!)
I’ve also found out he’s had at least 6 other short-term affairs during the past 10 years.
He also texted two ex-girlfriends from 30 years ago as recently as last week.
As a result of the affairs, he and I have not been intimate for years, no even so much as a handshake! He’s also been verbally abusive at times, swearing and yelling at me.
We have an 18 year old daughter who’s leaving for college in August. So my plan was to get a divorce shortly thereafter. I’ve already spoken to an attorney. I got laid off from my full-time job but have a part-time job, so my finances are tight. He wants to retire next year, but if we divorce that will most likely delay his retirement. He also had early stage prostate cancer last year but seems to be cured. I feel bad for him for that, but…
Do I give him another chance or run?
I think I know the answer. I just need reinforcement during a moment of weakness here.
I know some couples can reconcile even after multiple affairs — but is this too far gone? He pushed a very loyal person (me) to the point where I almost don’t care what he does or who he does it with. It took me years to get to that point. I now know I deserve better.
In principle, I don’t want a divorce but I feel I’ve done all I could and more, and can’t abandon myself.
Believe it or not, he has some good qualities. I’m 55 and he’s 61. My circle is small and I don’t have much emotional support so I feel very alone.
Thoughts?
I Need a Chump Lady Smackdown
***
Dear I Need a Chump Lady Smackdown,
How about a hug?
You’ve been living with a serial cheater for decades. And you experienced a double betrayal. That’s incredibly traumatic. Anyone would be running around like their hair was on fire faced with this crap. Look, I’m good for the smackdown, but before I start wielding bitchslaps, let’s just state the obvious:
You’re in an abusive relationship.
He’s a serial cheater. That’s a choice. He chose your FRIEND. Someone in your intimate circle and conspired with her in your abuse FOR A DECADE. That’s a choice. When he should be trying to earn your trust and repair your relationship (I’m hugely skeptical, but you gave him chances) — he lies to you. Verbally abuses you. And cheats further.
Those are all choices.
He said he didn’t mean to hurt me.
No, he gets off on hurting you.
It’s part of his basic operating system. And you’re modeling this sh*t to your daughter. Which is reason enough to immediately exit this relationship. (But we’ll get to that in a moment.)
He CHOOSES to hurt you.
Time after time after time. And you keep absorbing those hits. Frankly, I don’t even think you believe his BS promises not to do it again. He hasn’t left, and that’s some sort of bargain you’ve struck — he screws around, hurts you, but doesn’t leave. Which is not a compliment, btw, it’s a permission structure for further abuse. If he wasn’t hurting you, he’d be hurting some other woman.
Part of this structure is held together with the spackle of “he has some good qualities.”
Abusers are never 100 percent bad. They have hooks.
One of those hooks is the potential that they’ll change. And be more of the good person you invested in. But he doesn’t want to be different — because his entitlement is working for him. You have ample evidence of this.
- “He initiated contact with her about 8 months later”
- “He’s had at least 6 other short-term affairs”
- “Texted two ex-girlfriends from 30 years ago as recently as last week”
Is this acceptable to you? If not, what are you sticking around for? His lovely singing voice? How he looks in a starched dress shirt? That time he took you out for sushi on your birthday?
Tracy, it’s not that black and white. You can’t just dump someone. Marriages are complex!
It’s not complex.
He’s spent most of your marriage hurting you, humiliating you, risking your health, your finances, and your family life to get his dick wet. Worse, afterwards he met your pain with more abuse.
He wants to retire next year, but if we divorce that will most likely delay his retirement.
Oh the poor sausage.
Get thee to a lawyer soonest. Your part-time job could work to your advantage when it comes to alimony and division of assets. You should also try and figure out what he’s spent on these affairs and go after it as dissipation of marital assets in the divorce. You’re in a MUCH better bargaining position NOW while he has a job than afterwords if he retires. Make this mofo work for you.
He also had early stage prostate cancer last year but seems to be cured. I feel bad for him for that, but…
I don’t have a sadz that his balls are failing. They’re probably exhausted and contemplating retirement themselves. Get out before you’re his caretaker. Let your former “friend” mop up his dick dribble. Not your job.
We have an 18 year old daughter who’s leaving for college in August. So my plan was to get a divorce shortly thereafter.
No, do it now. August is only later this summer. I’m sure you had an excuse at every single benchmark.
It never feels like the right time. There’s just how much you’ll put up with.
Stop putting up with it. Take back your power. Show your daughter that this is NOT okay. You can’t get back those years you wasted with this terrible man, but you can have a beautiful future without him.
Peace and sanity are waiting for you. And if this FW asks you why you’re serving him with divorce papers, tell him you needed a friend.
And he isn’t it.
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Ex-Mrs LFTT used to make a very nice chicken and ham pie. It was good (really good), but not quite good enough to counterbalance/offset her cheating, her lying, her theft and her manipulation.
Working out how to make the pie myself and divorcing the ever loving sh*t out of her was the right way to go.
I hope that the OP sees the light and gets out.
LFTT
A good 🥧 pie! Haaa
“I didn’t mean to hurt you” was also one of the self-serving FW narcopath’so pathetic sayings about his hooker habit.
After DDay #1 we reconciled and I wasted nearly 3 decades on a serial cheater sociopath. He further en trapped me with kids including a disabled one. During our false reconciliation he also whined about retirement and how I can continue working, if married he can early retire. Raged about his image being tarnished because I didn’t keep his cheating a secret after DDays #2, 3,4,5. During this he also stole 7 figure sum. And considerd a fatal accident for me. Whether that was in cahoots with the main criminal madame side piece or not I’ll never know. Because I got the hell away so my kids can have a living mother.
Listen to everything Tracy says. Read this blog until you realize your husband is a POS abuser and whatever crumbs of ‘good qualities’ he threw out was so he can keep on USING and abusing you.
Read up on intermittent reinforcement and narcissistic abuse.
You in danger girl. He’s sizing up whether he can further exploit you to be a nurse and purse for him while he screws around in retirement, or if keeping you for Impression Management and free nanny maid was only useful while your daughter was at home.
Your abuser-husband is evaluating you as a carton of milk nearing the expiration date.
RUN
Several of use have mentioned that our FWs considered causing fatal accidents. And like a few others here, my ex made multiple attempts by sabotaging the house before he left and when he returned for court-ordered visits to do inventories, get some things, and then the final move-out. He planned ahead for what he did inside the house during those visits, and managed some, and made attempts, even when “supervised.” One supervisor was what I thought was a mutual friend, but he actively collaborated, including when they split up to “use the bathroom.” My now ex kept sneaking off to the garage. He may have been trying to sabotage my car, too.
I restricted the amount of time he could be in the house by getting a court order to keep him out except for specific times and reasons, then systematically getting independent crews to inventory, photograph and pack his stuff, then remove it to the front patio for pickup by his friends. For the final moveout, a neighbor arranged to have her visiting church elders pack and move electronics, furniture and other items as their service project. I didn’t think they could manage until they showed up: mostly young men in their twenties who knew all about packing electronic systems. FW was extremely disappointed to learn that his room and other possessions were already moved before he and his buddies arrived, and they had no reason I should allow them in the house again. He was screaming and called his lawyer, who called my lawyer, who forwarded the photos I’d sent showing the rooms were completely empty.
I had seen some of his sabotage attempts, but I’d only see one part at a time, like smashed smoke alarms or tampering with electrical lines, which did shock the IT guy who came to help with security. Fortunately I complained to someone who understood how they would combine to cause a fire or explosion. Even years post-divorce I am finding other sabotage that could be deadly.
We are fortunate we survived.
Indeed!
May I ask what else you found in terms of sabotaging the house? I’m in the former marital home which FW had free access to.
This. You is in danger. Nothing is going to get better and absolutely for your daughter sake. Show her what to do which is to never let someone treat you like that. Everyone here has been treated like that and once you are away, you will have perspective. You got this. You are here. This is your window to leave. Please do not wait any longer and keep us updated. Also your friend who is not your friend because she’s sleeping with your husband is a stalker . Stalkers are dangerous. Please see a divorce attorney that was a life changer for me. Because they can start giving you clarity. You will find a healthy and good life. You’ll have to work to get out of this, but you will be free and you will look back on this time and even though it was a very long time like me and like many of us, you’ll be so happy to be out of it.
You ALMOST don’t care what he does and who he does it with?!? I’d take that ALMOST and stuff it in a sack! And he’s very lucky you are too kind to do that to him!
This is a quickly fading opportunity for you to build the best future for you and your daughter. Quietly gather your financial documents, obtain legal counsel and jump. Every decision should be based on whether it leads to your independence. His input, his opinion, his objections are irrelevant.
Add a daily walk or exercise class/video. Talk to your doctor if you experience severe anxiety/depression. Volunteer in a setting that doesn’t demand a lot of chatter – at a food pantry, with animals, etc. Find a community that shares your values.
Read through the CL archives everytime you feel discouraged.
I thought the same thing, OP has a shrinking window of time to escape the toxic marriage while FW is earning more than her and distracted by new side pieces.
He’s 2000 steps ahead of her in planning her discard.
Trust that he sucks and get an attorney right away. Big hugs to you, you can do this!
My ex also had numerous good qualities and was the most accomplished actor. He used to cry actual tears as he promised that he didn’t mean to hurt me. He would change, he couldn’t live without me and the kids….
Well, it turns out he absolutely could live without me. He was actually surprised when I left (and angry). I’d stayed through a couple of d-days, so no wonder he was surprised.
Find a good attorney, a therapist who will help you figure out who you are after years of living with a manipulator, and then live your life—you might be surprised by the joy you feel.
This is part of the bargaining with yourself in order to find reasons to stay. It’s terrifying to make the decision to up end your entire life. But it truly isn’t that complicated. It comes down to asking yourself if this relationship is acceptable to you. You could also ask yourself if this treatment is what you would want for your daughter. Then the answer becomes crystal clear.
My betrayer had some “good qualities.” But the further away I get from his lies and manipulations the clearer it becomes that what appeared to be “good qualities” were simply more lies and manipulations.
The betrayal by both FW and friend is horrid, especially her aggressive move into your turf. And especially through your child’s school and activities..
While you’ve been waiting until your daughter is 18, he may have been doing the same, with plans to move you out too, and move the AP in. Get going on getting your lawyer and documentation, including financial records, NOW.
I hope you kept and backed up the AP’s photos with FW, especially the nudes. Unless he slept through it all, he knew and allowed her to take those pictures, On at least two separate occasions.
It’s also not fair to spring this on your daughter after she’s left home and is starting college in a new environment, away from her usual support structure. I’d get a therapist for the two of you. If she’s likely to share your plan with her FW Dad, you may not want to tell her about the upcoming divorce, but she should at least know about the affair. She may have spent the last 10 years dealing with the AP, too, and not known what’s wrong. If AP is willing to intentionally hurt you, not just with cheating but sending photos and nasty comments to you, she may have been doing something similar to your child, while you have no idea. I wouldn’t be surprised if all these moves were to give her access to your daughter so she could assassinate your character. After all you were friends, and if you didn’t tell your daughter why, the ex-friend may have filled the gap. I don’t blame you if you kept silent about the AP’s ID with her. It would have been difficult for her to deal with seeing this AP at all the parts of her life that AP infiltrated.
Your FW no doubt enjoyed all this, especially if he went to any school or sports events.
If you file when she leaves, your daughter has just a month before she leaves to come to terms with her father as a cheater. Use them wisely.
There’s a few good books about the impact of cheating on kids. I’ve mentioned two of them here, before.
Hugs to yo and your daughter.
When I was rocking back and forth in my therapy chair crying..BUT WHAT WILL HE DO WITHOUT ME, He’s so nice to his father, mother, his family and he drives me to Bed & Breakfast weekends!!!….my therapist, who had done a long stint counseling prisoners told me that =serial murderers are nice to their kids, pets and gave good gifts to family members at Christmas too. Not to be fooled..because they lie through ACTION and words. They also ALWAYS land on their feet. Always and do spendid on the next victim. No worries Mate
PS! I can’t believe Tracy came back to us from sun drenched ITALY on the water…with all our whining!!! What a woman. Thank you Tracy!!
I am so sorry you’re here. It sucks. I also had a serial cheater. Overv30 years. A few of them I knew. Most, I did not know, and will never know. There is nothing to save here. I am in my 70s and thankful he will never touch me again. I will not deal with his medical issues, as they get worse, as he is nearly 6 years my senior and had encounters with numerous infected betrayal objects. It sucks for kids, too. Your kid will need a good therapist. There is still a good life ahead, even if the runway is as short as mine. Get a full STD panel, including blood work,pap smear, etc. Go to the dentist for a full oral exam. You have no idea where his mouth was. We are here for you!!
“I didn’t mean to hurt you” is an excuse as useless as an anus on your elbow.
Oh he didn’t mean to hurt you? Then what did he mean to do? I always see that excuse line and think it’s one of three things going on here:
1) He knew it would be hurtful, he just didn’t care. It doesn’t matter if he didn’t mean the hurt, he decided it was worth it. So in his mind it’s just collateral damage, but it’s ok because he didn’t specifically set out to cause you harm. 🙄
2) He knew it would be hurtful, but he didn’t think you’d catch him. He’s fully aware of the pain it causes, but he figured it wouldn’t matter because he never thought you’d find out anyway. So in this scenario, again, in his mind he didn’t specifically set out to cause you pain, so he still thinks it’s ok.
3) He just straight up didn’t think about you at all. Can’t mean someone harm if you’re not even thinking of them!
Or a combination of these. Mix and match to make a set!
“I didn’t mean to hurt you” is what you say when you accidentally step on someone’s foot. Not when you have an ongoing 10 year frikkin affair.
CL’s advice is spot on. As someone who stayed through decades of long and short term affairs, always with the promise of being done, or AP meaning nothing to him, my biggest regret is not leaving sooner. It’s really hard. Its really uncomfortable and yet the final decision to love yourself more than a harmful abusive faux partner is worth every painful experience you will endure.Don’t do what I did. I mistook loyalty and altruistic love as a bond we shared.It was in fact Stockholm Syndrome. Good luck to you.
I just can’t get past that she is considering staying in a marriage where she has no sex, (for years) but her cheater will continue on with his sex life while treating her like dog waste.
Her main motive, I think, is keeping an “intact family” for her daughter.
Right, but her daughter graduates soon and will be emancipated. She is asking if she should give him another chance. I know it is easy to talk when you have passed the pain and had a much better life. But she is considering more time celibate, devoid of romance, or respect from him to “give him another chance”.
So in short my advice would be hunker down, get your financial papers copied and secured and run like your hair is on fire.
I get the concerns about retirement and all. My marriage had been in a tailspin for years, and then it blew up right after he retired. I had largely been a SAHM. But he effectively set the course. We separated twice in the first year, and he went many states away. He had significant health problems when he left and a health crisis immediately after. I took a deep breath and let go. I knew he was living like a single man.
But because of his religious family, he tried to convince me to reconcile on a surface level. He insisted he was a good man, as did his family and our long-term church.
Nope. I refused to reconcile, and the divorce told me just how very little he thought of me. He is NOT a good man. I figured that if I had to live in someone’s basement for the rest of my life with a microwave and tiny refrigerator, it was still worth it.
Well, that didn’t happen, and I did just fine. I had to rework my friend circle and figure out what this phase of life looked like. The adult offspring actually like me and want nothing to do with Dad, their choice. I assume he’s still alive, but it’s been years since we heard from him. And we’re truly enjoying life without him.
Spot on, as always! The letter-writer has probably been “frog boiled” to accept this kind of chaos over a long period of time, which is why she thinks it’s not so bad. To those of us who aren’t in a relationship with this guy he sounds like satan himself.
My cheater was really, really FUNNY. I stopped laughing when I found a photo of his penis in another woman’s vagina. If I want funny I can watch professional comedians. They are funnier anyway and don’t create daily discord in my life.
Tracy is also correct about filing while cheater is still working full time.
The alimony amount will reflect a long marriage, higher income and tuition contributions can be negotiated. If he delays collecting his social security until well after 62 years of age, a divorced survivor will be able to receive that higher amount some day.
Talk to a lawyer, not to the cheater. If the sucessful cheater is concerned about his image, ask lawyer about threatening to depose affair partners and employer.
Sorry that you are going through this. Do you really want to give the cheater another chance knowing what you do and continue to model your daughter that his behavior is okay and totally acceptable?
So what if he wants to retire? If he wants to he will find a way to do that even after the finances are settled. He has prostrate problems? So what so do most men at a certain age!! He can find sympathy in the dictionary.
Get yourself to a lawyer and start this process now. I was married to a serial cheater too and it will not get better. My ex could also cry little salt tears at the drop of a hat but somehow could not change his behavior. Get the lawyer and it may be good to get a forensic accountant too since affairs are not cheap. I did both and the amount of money he spent on numerous Schmoopies allowed me to pay off my nice home, buy a car, go on several nice vacations and retire. Get a great settlement and lead a great life. Please model the behavior you would want from your daughter in this situation.
I am almost four years out from a long and drawn out divorce process and life is better on the other side. Don’t wait, you deserve the peace after being with a serial cheater.