A Cheater Gets Cheated on and Wants My Sympathy
If a cheater gets cheated on, should you feel sorry for them? What if this person is your sister?
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Hello Chump Lady,
My 50 year old sister recently came to my crying about her husband of 20 years. She just found out that he had had a 3 year affair with a coworker. She is hysterically upset. I, of course, tried to offer sympathy.
The problem is that she, herself, cheated on him 7 years ago, also with a coworker.
I remember her gossiping to me about how much fun she had. Her husband eventually found out, and they decided to stay together. Given this fact, my sympathy for her is limited.
What do you have to say about infidelity when both have cheated?
Signed,
Not-So-Sympathetic Sister
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Dear Sis,
What do I have to say? I’m not in this nut cluster. This sort of dilemma is one of the many reasons I’m skeptical about reconciliation. Your sister thought all was forgiven. Her husband apparently thought he had a green light to have his own affair. Turnabout is fair play and all. He ate the sh*t sandwich, now it’s her turn.
This is not what healthy marriages look like.
Clearly the trust is gone, if it ever existed. I hope they’re not delusional enough to attempt reconciliation again. I’d help her sort out her finances and find a good attorney.
What? Where are the cheeky “Karma is a bitch” memes? No nanner-nanner boo boo schadenfreude? No finger-wagging moralism?
Nope. A person you love just suffered a natural consequence of their own actions. Let that lesson do the work and stand aside. Yep. It hurts like a mofo to be cheated on. Does your world feel unsafe? Do you feel violated? Conspired against? Raw?
Welcome to the chump condition.
I’m sure her husband is expecting the same grace he extended 7 years ago and perhaps maintained for 4 years before seeking out his own affair. Perhaps she feels compelled to extend it.
Why bother? The guy can lie to your face for three years straight. You’d never know if your world is safe. Why live with the hypervigilance? Just accept that you both made a total mess of it and break up honestly.
Which is, in my opinion, what should’ve happened 7 years ago. That would’ve leveled a meaningful consequence. And your sister could’ve learned from it and done the work on herself. Any relationship she had after that would be a fresh start. Now she’s got to do all that starting over, plus work through the trauma of chumpdom.
Had your BIL divorced 7 years ago, he wouldn’t be a cheater. He’d be a guy dating his coworker. Now he’s a creepy POS. Maybe both of them had flawed characters from the start, but honestly it just seems like they both compounded their mess. My advice:
End the charade.
My advice to you is — don’t extend sympathy you don’t feel. Just show up the way you always have as her sister. You had a relationship with her when she was a cheater, right? Her new chump status doesn’t change anything between you. However, I hope it changes her perspective.
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Once in a coparenting therapy session with Traitor Ex, he who abandoned not just me but also our daughter actually expressed that he was upset, saying that he felt he had been “cut out” of our family.
?!!!!!!
When Dr Kickass Coparenting Therapist and I had picked our jaws up off the floor I said, “You left.” She said to him, “Looks like you’re getting a taste of your own medicine.”
I said nothing more, delighted that it came from her and not me. I didn’t need to say anything more.
I think it’s good to stay factual and stick with the tried and true classics if you feel the need to voice an observation.
“Golly, looks like you’re getting a taste of your own medicine.”
Or from ancient playground lore, “Well, back in the day we used to say don’t dish it out if you can’t take it.”
My sympathy is for victims, not perpetrators.
♥️
This is what I’m going through right now and the ridiculousness is almost comical.
After I caught him (just over a year ago) he told me he loved ho-worker and they wanted to be together. Neither of us pretended we wanted to reconcile (not a single cell of my being was interested in fighting over that disgusting POS) so he left me and our two young children and we are still steadily working through the wake of sh!t he has left behind (the usual financial ruin, betrayal trauma, loss of home etc).
Ever since, he has been the very sad sausage who can’t understand how he has lost his family and home and is very much a victim of unfair punishment in his opinion (not allowed to use the word consequences).
He honestly cannot understand how I didn’t just quickly get over his abuse and betrayal and go right into a wonderful co-parenting relationship, and be happy for him that he found his “soulmate” (pass me the sick bucket) where his image of the great man and heroic father was maintained, you know, for the kids’ sake at least.
Talk about delusional. Still absolutely no understanding of the damage he’s done. I’m just overreacting. What possible reason can our daughter have for not wanting to speak to him. After all, in his own words “lots of people have affairs”… You know, it’s really not that big of a deal and it doesn’t make him a bad person because so many other people do it.
I am so sorry for you and your children. I hate how many FWs can’t understand that what they did not only wounds their partners, but their entire families. I’ve heard so many stories of FWs being like “Why can’t the kids just forgive me???” and I’m baffled by it. You betrayed the entire family. Yes, some kids aren’t going to care as much or push it to the side because they have that parent-child bond. But it’s likely to affect the relationship in some way, no matter what.
I hope your little family unit is able to heal and be happy. Find your peace and protect it.
Thank you for your supportive words.
I had a few people tell me after D-Day that he’s a wonderful father. The mind boggles. There are so many people out there, not just FWs, who really do believe that cheating is only inflicted on the partner and not the kids.
The damage a cheater does to their children’s sense of safety, security, trust and overall wellbeing is impossible to measure. Our now-13 year old has gone from having a father that she thought was dependable, loving and utterly devoted to his family’s happiness to a liar, a thief and a cheat – he’s suddenly a stranger to her. And on top of dealing with this devastating loss, she now has guilt piled on top of her to boot, because she’s upsetting him by not wanting contact at the moment. I hate to think what the long-term effects might be for both my kids.
When my cheater said this to me, I said “People get ax murdered every day, its commonality doesn’t make it less awful”. To me, my spouses betrayal destroyed me more than his death did.
Indeed.
It’s a sad world we live in that had FW narcopath died, I would get a lot more sympathy as the widow instead of being abandoned by in-laws and smeared, and the kids would also be able to say our dad died young and get sympathetic nods instead of the ongoing sh*t storms of post divorce lying which IMHO is continued abuse.
I hear you, but please know that the very complicated path of grief my kids experienced has not been easy. We were essentially abused, betrayed, lied to, abandoned and grief stricken (at varying times and degrees). We didnt avoid all of the pain, just different forms of it.
I guess I wonder why she is “hysterically” upset. I mean, does she not take a beat and say, “wow, this is exactly how he must’ve felt.” It’s awful, but I would think that realization would maybe temper her sense of betrayal?
Also, the other people at work don’t wanna be in the blast zone of cheaters’ destruction! Sheesh!
I also took issue with the “hysterically upset” thing. Forced empathy burns.
It also unlocked a memory.
We had family friends growing up that turned out were cheating on each other when the nests emptied out. It was the same basic setup minus the “discovery and reconciliation” that I ever found out about. The wife was banging her personal trainer, so “no problems with infidelity.”
When she found out that husband had just started cheating? Wanted divorce, wanted the house, the cars, everything. Not “wow, this must be what that feels like, I’m awful!”, not “ok, I think we probably are better apart if this is how we treat each other.” Nope, “that awful so-and-so and his harlot can go to hell!”
“Rules for thee, but not for me.”
My sis,who cheated on her divorce ATTORNEY husband with a local fireman…and I squeeled on her and he divorced her..now 50 years later she has no remorse and still talks about his balding head and small stature…” he always turned me off “..no lesson learned here.
This reminds me of something I saw about Martha Stewart. Apparently both she and her ex had affairs. I didn’t bother reading further because it looked like a childish argument of “Mom, but he did it first”.
I think the writer should excuse herself from the role of advisor. That opportunity was lost when she wasn’t clear about her own values when her sister cheated.
The ugly math to justify how many people can be hurt – or keep secrets – at any given time will never add up.
Amen! Not worth your breath now
Agree. NSSS needs to step away from this clusterf***.
Twatface’s skank cheated on him around the three year mark and he was absolutely hurt and disgusted!! He actually came to me saying “how COULD she do this to me”! The irony was not lost on me but I kept my counsel – just had a little snigger when his back was turned!
😄 That must have felt so good.
It sure did. And even today his life’s choices still make me snigger!
NSSS,
I would suggest that, for sake of your own sanity that you separate practical and emotional support.
You could provide practical support (advice on lawyers, accommodation, and financial matters etc) to the extent that you are willing/able. The provision of emotional support (ie extinguishing the emotional flames of the dumpster fire that is your sister’s marriage and then helping her deal with the psychological impact of being a cheater who has been cheated on) not so much. In your shoes I would strongly recommend that she gets a good therapist and you should keep your fingers well away from the mangle.
LFTT
I think I’d be limiting my contact with a sister like that. After cruelly bragging about how fun it was to cheat on her husband, now she’s the victim when he does it to her? Typical cheater lack of self awareness. She should be sheepish about and admit that she had it coming.
My sympathies, NSSS. I have a narcissistic sibling too. You probably don’t want to abandon her in her time of need, but you may want to put limits on how often she can dump her self-induced problems on you. Maybe you could suggest she get a therapist to cry to.
My sister cheated on every guy she ever dated, got engaged to or married. There were six engagements (that I know of) before she got married. I will never forget how indignant she was when she walked into her bedroom and found the first fiancé naked with the neighbor. I found it difficult to be sympathetic. But I tried.
Years later, my father told me she had slept with every boyfriend I’d ever had, and with my first husband. When I confronted my husband, he admitted it. My sister said I was crazy to even bring it up with her, that it was none of my business and I ought to just get over it. (She probably slept with my second husband, too — I wouldn’t have put it past either one of them, but he preferred men.) I haven’t seen or spoken to her — except that one time she showed up at my aunt’s birthday party — since our mother’s funeral in 2015.)
Wow, look, I’m as s*x positive as the next person, but this kind of extreme promiscuity, especially as infidelity, suggests to me that your sister is messed up. Not that I’m a therapist or anything, but this behavior really is extreme.
Sadly, it is not extreme in my effed up family of origin.
With a sister like that, who needs enemies? 😱
Exactly why I’ve estranged myself from her.
Sheesh, Ruby, that is one messed up sister you’ve got. Next time you go to a family event, please wear a hazmat suit to remind yourself you are in the presence of toxic waste. And I’m so sorry that your experience of sisterly love in this world has been destroyed by such a person: you deserved better.
I’m 70 now. My parents are both gone, and there is no reason to ever see or speak to my sister again. My friends, my chosen family are better people. Too bad my blood relatives were so toxic.
Remember Michael Landon of Little House in the Prairie? He had an affair on his first wife with a young gal, so left wife #1 for wife #2. Then,many years later with 4 more kids from OW -wife#2 , he ditches #2 for a 19 year old make up artist or something like that…to his 50+ years. Wife #2 has such a tizzy she refuses to attend his funeral, broken with such a cheater. I think those who are cheated on and were cheaters themselves just feel the loss of CENTRALITY and arrogance may crumble for awhile. Maybe lesson learned, likely not ,because they did not deserve turn around as fair play. Not fair!! Do cheaters learn lessons? Somebody help me. Treat your sister however you would like, but lectures may not sink in…just saw AWWWWWWWW
I don’t think cheaters ever learn lessons. I come from a long line of cheaters — my father, his father, his grandfather and even his great-grandfather cheated. I have a photo taken in the early days of photography of my great-great-great grandfather holding hands with a woman who was not his wife. My sister is a cheater, all but one of the cousins on my father’s side are cheaters. I have never seen, nor have I heard of a cheater who is sorry, has learned their lesson or stopped cheating because it hurt their spouse.
I agree, you are better off talking to 2 year old about quantum physic and the geometric curve of the universe than to waste your breath trying to convince a cheater they are in error.
Yeah, my sister, who was helping a husband cheat on his chronically ill wife that was dying (took her 3 years and he and my sister cheated on her the whole time AND my sister had the gall to go to her funeral) was in a frenzy one day saying “I found lube and condoms in his truck, I think he’s cheating on me.” I was very direct and said, “he is, with with his wife, first of all. And if he can cheat on her with you…” She didn’t not like that! Started getting all huffy and I said, “hey, you wanted to talk to me about it. We don’t need to talk about that ever, as far as I am concerned. Maybe you need to get a therapist?”
And to that she said…drumroll please…”I am trying to find a therapist that won’t judge me or him.”
Isn’t that just the best?
She was just proving what a entitled, narcissistic and crappy person she is (him too)! lol. They just don’t see it. They justify and rationalize, and they convince themselves they are just sad, misunderstood wee lambs, and everyone should stop being so mean and stop judging them! They just can’t control themselves!
FW’s, both of them. It takes two and both of the cheating pairs are major FW’s!
They seem to always want attention, adulation, admiration and centrality. My FW would often say I was ” judgemental.” I now, with my friends, can laugh heartily at that. Yes, I absolutely know there is right abd and wrong, good and bad, and he is clueless in that realm. Taking a hooker to your hotel room is wrong, buddy. No one feels sorry for your consequences of decades of cheating. No sympathy here. I am sure it felt bad to be outed. That is a consequence. No sympathy. Not a drop.
Soon after Dday, Cheater encouraged me to have compassion for OW because her fiancé had cheated on her. In the moment, I think he was deluded enough to think that he was “supporting a hurting person” never mind his abuse hurt me every day.
When #1 cheater was cheating on me while I was pregnant..he said to me…but but SHE NEEDED ME!
Dr. D. Lusional also had the white knight syndrome. Poor, poor Mrs. Bendover. Nobody likes her, her husband has cancer and she has to drive him to doc appointments, her husband doesn’t give her enough money, she lost custody of her child during one of her divorces…. Boo effing hoo. Maybe there is a reason nobody likes her and she lost her child – ever think of that brainless FW?
In my experience selfish, cruel immoral cheaters/people are rarely great in other areas of life.
A close friend KK has a sister who cheated and moved out of state to be with the AP, effectively abandoning 2 late teen kids. Well my friend feels obligated to support the sister however, she complains the sister siphoned money from their mom for years but being left behind also is now my friend’s burden, and the sister does not prioritize my friend KK. Cheater sister is also a bad parent to the under-18 kid she dragged out of state to move in with her AP.
Meanwhile, cheetah sister is just so thrilled about her life with AP!
Of course, CL is right a thousand times when claims that breaking up a relationship/divorce after an affair is the best strategy for everyone, both for the right and for the guilty.
Yes, betrayal does not always become mutual, the cheater will not always start having sex on the side again or start an emotional affair in reality or online. It doesn’t matter.
The most important thing is that as a result of infidelity, the very foundations of the monogamous relationship that the cheater and their victim agreed on at the very beginning have been undermined, the personal emotional foundation has been destroyed, and the feelings of a betrayed partner have been tarnished and distorted. But the betrayer also reaps the fruits of their choice, although it may seem that, having received their pleasure, they continue to live as if nothing had happened.
If we talk about cases when, while having remained in a relationship, the cheater also turns out to be cheated on, they are quite freaquent.
It’s easy to open Pandora’s box, but no one has managed to drive the escaped demons there yet.
Many “original” cheaters say on the Internet that they blame themselves for everything and therefore forgive the “secondary” cheaters and begin to “work on relationships” with them. If, of course, the “secondary” cheaters want it, because they very often prefer to stay with their APs.
And it is impossible for these martyrs of “reconciliation” to imagine the consequences of their decision to maintain a relationship/marriage. The mass media, our culture, religion, along with the reconciliation industry, constantly drive into the heads of unhappy people who have experienced infidelity, as well as their repentant partners, that their relationship/marriage is “sacred”, and its preservation is the duty of all decent people and an indicator of their morality.
If we openly say that ending a relationship/marriage after infidelity is the optimal behavior strategy for both members of the couple, proven by millions of examples, then we will simply be pelted with rotten tomatoes.
Most often, people consider the decisive argument for maintaining a tarnished relationship to be “for the sake of the children.” But this is just a trick to justify the unwillingness to change anything in the established environment, the fear of losing and not finding something equivalent in return, fear of being left alone or just childish codependency towards a partner as it was at their early age towards mom and dad.
The result is what happened to the OP’s (Not-So-Sympathetic Sister) sister and her husband, who both, frankly, screwed up a lot.
And you know, for some reason I am sure that this is not the end of the story. They will definitely start feverish sessions with IC and MC in the very near future, buy a bunch of heartwarming books on how to forgive a cheater and save a marriage, listen to podcasts from great marriage preservation experts, go on scheduled dates and constantly write notes to each other “I love you” and so on.
They will tick off the entire checklist recommended by the reconciliation industry, like the pilots of a passenger liner before takeoff.
But they won’t revive the corpse of their marriage, they’ll just leave a well-painted mummy to show off to outsiders and brag about how well they’ve done.
But they know the truth themselves.
But only one person is truly suffering when reconciliation occurs. Just the broken Chump hurts. Tears from.the cheater mean absolutely nothing. They feel nothing. I assure you. They can act,get an Oscar for the performance to avoid CONSEQUENCES, but they feel nothing except sorry they got caught. I assure you of this.
So well-said👏