When I Ask Questions About His Affairs He Says I’m ‘Abusive’
Her husband has had a long double life, but when she asks him questions about his affairs, he calls her abusive and refuses to answer.
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Dear Chump Lady,
I found out that my husband of roughly 17 years had a double life of massage parlors, “paid by the hour girlfriends”, hook-ups and p*rn for at least half of our marriage, if not more.
I knew that he’d deny everything.
So, I waited until I managed to get a photo of him leaving a massage parlor. It took a while to do this, but it also gave me time to untangle all the lies and financial infidelity that he engaged in as well.
When I confronted him, he denied it until I said I had photos. He then had to admit that, but continued to lie about, well, pretty much everything. At his request we went through a therapeutic disclosure that was to be followed by a polygraph test.
He lied straight through it. And afterward he told me he felt ‘attacked.’
What I do know is mostly what I put together myself. He even cheated when I was with my sister and mom when I was with them as they died. When I asked him questions about the locations of the massage parlors, he accused me of being abusive.
He is unable to account for tens of thousands of cash withdrawals over the years. When I questioned a $1400 withdrawal in a bank from about 9 years ago, he said he couldn’t remember and that it shouldn’t matter it was so long ago.
I could go on and on (and might have already — if I did — sorry!) but my problem is getting up my nerve to tell him it’s over. I feel more capable of this in the moments in which I am angry — but there are a lot of moments where I can’t be angry (we have kids at home) and I act civilly and then it becomes harder to say the words. I want to be on the other side and I wish I’d just left immediately, but here we are.
I just need some help getting to the other side.
Why am I so stuck?
Thank you for your website!
Stuck
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Dear Stuck,
You don’t tell him it’s over. You END it.
Go to a lawyer with all your photos, all your financial statements and evidence that he’s been diverting money for years, and you file for divorce. And you don’t say one word until every duck is lined up.
This is not a consensus issue.
This is a you-protect-yourself issue. He’s been risking your health and welfare for YEARS. Of course he feels attacked now that you’re boldly questioning his unquestioned entitlement. In his narcissistic noggin that does feel abusive.
I know that’s bonkers. To be clear, he’s the bad actor and you’re his victim. But to his disordered mind HOW DARE YOU stop being a chump! HOW DARE YOU demand accountability! Heads must roll!
That’s why you don’t say anything about leaving him. This is a very dangerous time and he’s a freak. I’m sorry, I know you invested most of your entire adult life with this freak and bred with him. You’re not alone in that big life mistake club. But the rest of your life starts today. He’s irredeemable.
Recognize you have nothing to work with.
When I confronted him, he denied it until I said I had photos.
Lying to you is second nature. It’s his basic operating system.
He then had to admit that, but continued to lie about, well, pretty much everything.
Okay, so not only does he lie, he leans into his lies when challenged.
At his request we went through a therapeutic disclosure that was to be followed by a polygraph test.
This is some bullshit. He’s stalling for time. Making a faux gesture of remorse (I’ll agree to a polygraph! I’ll tell you everything!) and then… refuses to tell you anything.
He lied straight through it.
I rest my case.
And afterward he told me he felt ‘attacked.’
He feels attacked for the disclosure he said he wanted. Well, that’s a mindf*ck.
You’re not attacking him, you’re asking for accountability.
He’s not an honest broker, ergo, you can never feel safe with this man. And staying with him models terrible things to the kids about how people behave in relationships and in life. It Is Good to Be King. If You Do Not Submit, You Will Be Punished. Unhappy? Lie to Get What You Want.
Are those your values? No? Then shut that sh*t down. Divorce is hard on everyone, I won’t sugar coat it, but the peace and sanity are worth it.
Why am I so stuck?
You’re not stuck. You have the power to leave him. I’ve written about the forces that keep us stuck with cheaters. But at the end of the day, you simply have to decide you’re worth more than this. You have to liberate yourself. Many, many people have walked this path before you and survived and you can too.
Call that lawyer today.
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Mine said I was abusive and crazy, truly dangerous. He told his family and his attorney that.
Well, my relationship with his family got ugly anyway; they refused to believe that he had done anything wrong. Maybe I wasn’t crazy, but we definitely had to reconcile, no matter what. I couldn’t deal with that and told them that I was going my own way. From what little I know, they eventually figured it out, but kept that to themselves out of shame because religious extended families don’t have divorces, you know.
The attorney figured it out because you can’t fool an older attorney with decades of experience. Apparently, he was in a bit of a financial bind and was not selective about his cases, according to what he told mine late in the proceedings. But he did figure out who was who and ultimately got it settled, which I’m thankful for. And he bragged to mine about overbilling my STBX because he couldn’t stand him. Well, not exactly ethical.
I’m thankful that my attorney recommended no contact during the negotiations because it helped me stand on my truth and to let go of trying to justify myself with someone who was so disordered in his thinking. I did allow email during closeout because I felt ready, and I did fine with ignoring his blame-and-game. That was empowering. We didn’t have custody issues (college kids), and we had crafted the settlement so there was no need for long-term contact over anything. Eventually, he let go.
Life is truly good on the other side, but oh, getting there was hard.
Polygraph tests mean nothing. They are not even admissible as evidence in court anymore because they are so unreliable. He did that as a song and dance to get you to shut up.
You’re not abusing him. He’s co-opting therapy language to use against you when you press for the truth. To someone who thinks he’s entitled to do anything he wants without question, accountability feels like abuse. It isn’t and it never will be. But he’ll act like you kicked his puppy and drowned a kitten whenever you ask “What did you spend $5000 on in February??” Then it becomes about you defending yourself from his cries of abuse and not about his years of deceit.
That being said, you know the truth. You’ve seen the missing money, you have the pictures. You don’t need him to admit it. And so far, we’ve seen he’s only willing to cop to what he’s sure you already know, and only when you have hard evidence. It’s trickle truth. “I never cheated on you!” (Show him photos) “ok that time I did” (drip…) “I never spent marital assets on that!” (Bank statement) “well…that was a while ago…” (drop…)
He’s not telling you anything else because he thinks you don’t know anything else. You don’t need to waste time getting him to admit to everything drip by drip with each receipt and Polaroid.
Talk to a lawyer, get everything lined up, and get out. Don’t show him your hand before you tell him it’s done though. And separate what finances you have. If he’s capable of spending thousands behind your back, he’d have no problem wiping out your shared accounts. Make sure you’re protected and have a plan before he’s served.
Please listen to Chumplady on this. You have nothing to work with, he will never, ever change. Everyone here knows how scary it is to consider leaving someone you’ve spent your life with. But you CAN do it. I was you three years ago, when I finally got up the courage to leave after 34 years with a FW. I won’t kid you, it was awful, it was a wall of pain. I was absolutely convinced I’d never feel happy again, and that my life was pretty much over.
Three years later, life is good again. It’s not perfect, Pennywise is STILL dragging out the divorce while living with the Schmoopie he moved into my house as soon as I left. I have yet to see a dime in settlement money, and I’m working two jobs at the age of 60 to recoup some of my financial losses.
But there is SO much good in my life. I live close to all three of my children (Pennywise lives 600 miles away, and rarely talks to his kids), I have a beautiful new grandbaby who I get to see every day, I have good friends and extended family who have stood by me through everything, even when I was a blubbering, sobbing mess for months. Sure I work hard, but it’s work I enjoy – an these days there’s no sulking husband giving me crap because his dinner isn’t on the table because I had to work late. I get to go where I want when I want and have my home exactly the way I want it, without guilt. It’s wonderful. And if I can come through this, so can you, because there were times I really thought I wasn’t going to make it.
Best of all, I have self respect again. I KNOW I deserve better, and so do you. Everyone here is wonderful and supportive, come here whenever you feel wobbly. We’re all pulling for you!!
Yes, and especially to the self respect!
I dealt with a bit of that when I was sucked in the RIC. I was allowed to ask questions and he was supposed to answer but then he lied and then he said I was making him feel bad so the counselor said I needed to work harder to put this episode behind me.
CALL AN ATTORNEY. Don’t just consult by phone. Walk into an attorney’s office. Sort out what assets and accounts there are. Present all the questionable disappearing cash records. It’s called dissipation of marital assets. You will feel empowered by a good attorney. Get a session with a counselor to work through your inability to uphold your boundaries as a separate issue. But you MUST get a legal consult. Your eyes will clear.
My fear is he has bought himself time to hide assets and lawyer up and the LW will be caught flat footed. She knows the right answer. Once you put one foot in front of the other, you find your way and gather strength. MAKE THE CALL.
P.S. Consult more than one attorney to find the best fit. Choosing the right attorney is so important.
Here’s the thing…he’s a lying liar who lies. If he tells you it’s raining, check the weather before you act on what he said. Assume that nothing coming out of his mouth is the truth. His poor pitiful me stuff is just an act. His cries of abuse are just him trying to mess with your mind. And while he’s acting like a wounded puppy he’s still cheating and stealing marital assets. Now that he knows you’re onto him, he could be setting up an separate bank account so you can’t see what he’s doing with “his” money (which is a MARITAL asset, not just his).
My ex and I were theoretically on a temporary separation when he opened a separate bank account and withheld funds from me. I was a stay-at-home mom with three minor children and two in college. Tuition was due in a month. Fortunately, there was an account I could pull money from to keep the family afloat until I got the lawyers involved. And after that he went around telling anybody who would listen that I “stole” his money.
That temporary separation never ended.
Don’t be me. Don’t sit there waiting for the next awful thing to happen. Getting divorced was the hardest thing I’ve ever done, but it was worth it. I am free from the horror show that was my life. There is peace on the other side.
Your letter and your research leads me to believe you care about fairness and loyalty. Those values and effort should now belong only to you and your children. That is a result of HIS actions which you cannot control or undo. You do not owe him a heads up or an explanation. Put together your support team and take back your future.
It’s funny, I just read a book called “Broken to Brave”, subtitled, “Your Courageous Act of Healing After Intimate Betrayal”. (I do NOT recommend it!) The author says a number of times that ‘full disclosure’ is important before the relationship can continue. I would like to know how could anyone get ‘full disclosure’ from a lying liar who lies?? The author suggests that part of it could be done in a therapy session (or two or more). Oh, sure, because no lying cheater has ever lied to a therapist! And no therapist has ever fallen for the lies of a lying cheater! No thank you, I will stick with the wisdom of Chumplady!