Did You Out Your Cheater?
The Friday Challenge question, and topic of an upcoming podcast, is did you out your cheater?
As we say here “If It Feels Good, Don’t Do It.” But does that extend to speaking your truth and publicly outing your cheater? Where’s the line? Spray-painting their name on a bridge span… not okay. Social media blasts? Gray area? (Please don’t do either if you have minor children and custody cases.)
But some of us have thrown caution to the win and outed their cheaters anyway.
- Tagged him and his affair partner’s vacation pictures to all and sundry on Facebook. Hi mom!
- Called an employer and gotten them fired for a work place affair.
- Lost it and confronted the FW at a family gathering.
- A Jumbotron camera caught them and announced it to the world. (Okay that was just one couple…)
So, CN, did you out your cheater? Any regrets?
I’m on the side of cooler heads prevailing, and gaming out all possible repercussions before acting. I’m not in favor of silencing yourself about being cheated on, but that’s different than a public shaming via bridge span.
That said, seeing your name on a bridge span is a lot less painful than being chumped. Anyway, tell me your experience.
TGIF!
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I heard from a colleague of his (I had become friendly with his colleagues over the years through work events) that he was telling people he was “honoring a promise he made to me” when he made the decision to move out abruptly. Basically he was suggesting I asked him to leave, which was completely false – his work colleagues liked me, so I presume this was his way of deflecting, blame and looking like the good guy. Garnering sympathy. I wrote a specific and factual and detailed email to them rebutting that and explaining the sequence of events and then also sent it to family members of his (his stepmother had asked me “what the hell is going on?“ Because everyone was baffled by his behavior). I have never regretted it for a moment. I’m a lawyer, I reviewed every word for complete factual accuracy.
Nobody lies about me and gets away with it. I highly recommend speaking your truth. There’s nothing like the self-esteem that comes from coming out of the shadows. Obviously, if you’re in the middle of some hideous legal situation talk to your attorney. But in general, I think people are way too scared of speaking up. I support calm factual, detailed, truthtelling whenever possible.
Happy Friday!
I LOVE this! In the absence of the truth, FW stories, bolstered by flying monkeys, make the rounds.
If I had it to do over again, I would follow your path, falcon.
I did speak THE truth, not MY truth like ex was trying to manipulate, and they refused to believe me! Only then did I realize the extent of how toxic his FOO really was. It hurt because I thought they would support me but now I’m glad I learned they are all messed up and deserve each other.
Same! I told only people who were in a position to help the ex or our children, was as clear and unemotional as I could manage, and provided them with documentation to back up the facts. They could see some things for themselves, anyway, like the fact he kept moving cities and was acting manic. I also had never provided them with any basis to believe his allegations against me in the twenty-plus years they’d known me. And STILL they believed that I’d kicked him out, I was impossible and possibly a murderous threat, that I was stopping him from seeing his children, and that he was sending support money all along.
Only one member of the family EVER corresponded with me again after his smear-campaign-then-exit-by-abandonment. They all believed him anyway. It’s awful when no-one believes you. They will believe a crazy man and disbelieve a stable woman. To me, he has been so obviously cray-cray. It is unbelievable how many of our circle went along with his absolute delusional, wacked-out accusations. The rare times I saw my former mother-in-law, she literally looked like she though I was going to kill her, she went pale! What on earth did he tell her??! I was never anything but kind and respectful to her for twenty years!
I don’t know all the lies that were told about me but these were bad enough: the divorce was mutual, we “grew apart”, I was controlling, I was a gold digger, I kept him away from his family. All not true and not worth defending. He cheated, he hid money, he lied about everything. After 30 yrs of being a faithful, loving, devoted wife to a disordered narcissist and I kept him as mentally healthy as he ever had been, they resented me for THAT too. So they got back a 65 yr old toddler living in their basement who hates his FOO with a passion (his words) and is trying to break up his dad’s marriage to his stepmom. After the divorce he wrote me an email telling me how much he hated her. I never responded, just saved it in case the need arises to show it to anyone.
I’m not sure this is always the case from a legal standpoint, but I have a hard time believing it could be considered slander if it’s true. None of these freaks thinks beyond the tip of their own genitalia, but honestly if you didn’t want people to be upset/disappointed/disgusted by your actions, maybe don’t do it in the first place?! But it’s just all image management, none of the substance.
The standards for defamation and libel are, it has to 1) be knowingly false; 2) it has to be intended with malice, and 3) it has to be published. Quite high bar. But of course the most practically relevant consideration is that you must have adequate financial resources to pay legal fees in the event you are accused by your legal-system abusing ex and have to deal with a spurious lawsuit. Known as “chill” in journalism.
Chumponit, this is not legal advice, but just to give you a heads up if you have a non-disparagement agreement that could impose additional obligations beyond the common law requirements of slander and libel. If someone has a non-disparagement clause, they are 100% consult an attorney, presumably the attorney who drafted the agreement.
I would never sign an agreement that contained a non-disparagement clause unless the FW made it worth my while with an enormous settlement.
Then I’d do all my disparaging before the signing. 😁
I love you, OHFFS
Correction, they should 100% consult an attorney
I have a non-disparagement clause in my divorce settlement. My understanding is that – unlike libel or slander (in the US) – truth is not a defense against an accusation of disparagement. That is, I would be in violation of my divorce decree if I were to spread the truth around our workplace.
It’s a shame that she can avoid consequences in this way, but I hope you got something good out of it (assuming it was a bargaining chip). Because on the other hand, why talk about this person at all. And a non-disparagement clause doesn’t rewrite the truth.
I agree!!
I highly support telling the truth, and not ever being complicit in a lie. I had no minor children when I first began to learn of his decades of betrayals. Over time, as the occasions arose, I told what he did to friends, family, our colleagues, faith community, pretty much any and all who asked where he was or how he was doing. Answered questions calmly and truthfully. Not everyone got details. I refused to cover up anything. Both of us were seniors when I first began to learn of his betrayals. He is nearing 80 now, not my responsibility or problem. He was most embarrassed by his old colleagues finding out. He often used them in lies regarding his whereabouts. I sleep much better these past few years. Everyone knows.
I did not listen to Tracy and am now sitting in a puddle of regret. If it feels good, do not do it. I have subtly outed him on FB but only said that my divorce was done and that CL supported me throughout with her book. Reposted the article from CL about cheating being a form of abuse. A lot of people reached out to me. Also he got outed at work by one of people who were witnessing the DD and then subsequently my abuse through the divorce and court (and a lot of money spent on litigation) – they wrote an anonymous email as they knew all of the details of a certain situation. While it felt good for a minute, I am now regretting that this was done as I look at my kids and think – your dad is suffering and might lose his job / money. The only positive that might come out of it is that he will be so focused on his situation that he will stop brainwashing my children against me – only time will tell now. Do not do it people!
It can be a fine line between protecting – if not them – yourself, the kids…but inevitably these are the consequences of their actions. I did the same thing (Facebook, posting CL topics) even though I’m off of social media now. But that being said, I don’t think anyone who would have done anything about it saw. So yes, tread carefully about what info you share and with whom, but you ultimately cannot protect them from whatever fallout does come their way, nor should you feel guilt for telling the truth.
I absolutely told anyone who asked why wasn’t my spouse with me. I have no regrets whatsoever. She on the other hand has asked me to quit telling people. She claims it makes her uncomfortable and they will think badly of her. And this is my problem how? Actions have consequences and I will not participate in lying to help her feel comfortable. Furthermore, if she causes a big stink during the divorce and fights me in anyway I will release some very explicit and compromising photos and text messages. I was fortunate that the AP’s spouse found the phone that was used to carry out the affair and now I have it. All the horrible details that I will share with the world if it comes to it. No regrets!
Just be super careful about checking out the legal implications of that. Where I live (in New South Wales, Australia), it’s illegal to even threaten to distribute intimate images. Might not be the same where you are, but I just felt compelled to mention it.
Thank you!
Too bad- she should have thought about that before deciding to be a loser’s whoremat.
Good for you- stand strong and fight- you’ll be so glad you did.
I admire you so much. You are so resolute and brave.
Hopefully it doesn’t come to that extreme. If it does she FAFO.
After my D day, I was quite disoriented. Like attempting to mentally balance on quick sand. The two years of deception and gaslighting softened my brain. I just needed to let it out. In a factual manner, but to whomever was the poor soul within earshot. The sleep depravation didn’t help. It is a wierd thing that doesn’t make sense unless you have gone through it. It is just a little validating to air your spouse’s dirty laundry, in my case my wife’s. I don’t regret it 1 year from D day.
I don’t think it is healthy to keep all that inside you. Especially with children to care for. My daughter, 10 at the time, heard our
D day blow out and was scared, crying, as my wife left our home, careless to the mess left behind. I had to tell my daughter on the spot what was happening. I made it consumable for a 10 yr old. For me it wasn’t outing for vengence it was for my own sanity. I didn’t out her at work, most of her coworkers probably either knew of her behavior or condone it, they are all divorced themselves. It was just to our daughter’s friends parents. It at least has eased the tension you could feel at sports viewing when we both attend. It still gets to me how she can cheer and pretend to be a real mom, and not be shunned by other parents. But also realize its an ackward situation and the easy route is for them to be cordial.
It is a great topic. When you find out your intuiton and suspicion is correct. The endless ruminating on every conversation you have had during your suspicion, and the whole relationship only gets more consuming. The outing is a little pressure valve to bring you down a little bit.
I agree with not letting things fester. Whitewashing the whole fiasco would involve gaslighting my own children, who heard the screaming fights and saw the police visits.
You know who wasn’t truthful about the infidelity divorce? My ex-MIL and sure enough that kid grew up to be a narcissistic FW himself.
Chumps are left with choosing between different flavors of sh*t sandwiches and choosing the lesser of the evils. It’s a situation none of us asked for.
The fact that Ex-Mrs LFTT changed her Facebook relationship status to “In a relationship with her AP” while we were still married and before she moved out of the house that we shared probably counts as her “self outing” herself.
10+ years later she still denies that they had an affair … she lies as easily as she breathes and I’ve not interest in keeping her secrets for her.
LFTT
Just proof they’re living in delulu-land if they don’t think that won’t come back to bite them should they be interested in spinning tales (and most are) about how and when things played out. If nothing else it’s like, thanks for the legal evidence and/or confirmation that you’re terrible!
ChumpOnIt,
It absolutely came back and bit her on her a*se.
During our Divorce, her Legal Team tried arguing that she was not in a relationship and definitely not spending most of her cohabitating with her AP in his house, some 70 miles from where she claimed to live. I only need two pieces of evidence to shut that sh*t down. Firstly, an analysis of the financial records that she’d handed over in disclosure that showed that almost 70% of her disposable income was spent using Credit/Debit Cards within 10 miles of where he lived, and (secondly) a screenshot of that post on her public FaceBook profile. It also had the added benefit of proving to the Judge that she was a habitual liar.
Let’s just say that say that her Legal Team were not “Happy Campers” when they worked out that their client had been lying to them and the Judge!
LFTT
As a group, these cheaters don’t seem like the brightest bulbs. Not only do they lie with abandon, but they also do really stupid things…above and beyond the obvious (cheating). I mean, posting a changed relationship status to Facebook? What?
Reminds me of the time my ex actually texted me to ask if my lawyer was going to ask about “all the women.” Shocked, I wrote back, “What? Is there more than one?” He frantically tried backpedalling, but I had the text in black and white. Scratching my head. And to think I used to think he was smarter than I.
😄
I haven’t lied to my friends and family who asked why we split, she took offence that my social group all removed her off social media and asked “do you all hate me?” when she saw them on a night out. I guess because she’s worried about her own self image more than anything else. I’m yet to tell her friend (who’s husband she cheated on me with) and probably wont unless she antagonises me or my social group any further.
Please, please tell the friend. If one person had spoken up to me, I might have saved myself before the entire town found out. The discovery that everyone knew except me almost killed me. Tell her out of compassion. I have agoraphobia now. I can’t leave the house for fear of encountering someone who knows me and knows about it.
I have sought legal advice and have been advised to tread very carefully – the only evidence was on my ex’s phone which she deleted on the night of D-Day. She has never actually admitted to the cheating and described the messages as “just a joke”, though what I read was beyond reasonable doubt. Without being able to provide hard evidence I could face defamation claims.
If her friend doesn’t know, you should tell. I wouldn’t necessarily just use it as a move, since this woman needs to get her ducks both in row and STI tested. Just approach with facts/proof and then she can do with it what she will, but she is being chumped too.
The first handful of people I told rather accidentally, as I was asking them for technical help deciphering some of FW photos I found
So essentially they were alongside me, so to speak, in my initial horrible days of discovering his secret double life.
As more came out and I needed help with playing private investigator, FW being a diabolical smart narcissist sociopath, naturally more people knew. FW was outraged that I told anybody. OUTRAGED
I’ve no regrets about telling others, in person or privately, did not do a social media blast.
Several chumps I know IRL kept it hush-hush and one of them is consequently totally mindf**ked for years, no idea about finances no lawyering up just passively minding the children while FW already out at his love nest for years.
Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
It really wasn’t that hard. I just told her gosippy nosey cousin and told her not to say anything. Less than 10 hours later she blew up my phone telling me all her strict Catholic aunts were calling her asking if she lost her mind having a boyfriend while married. It was one of the only bright spots during that time…..all the while denying she was seeing anyone
LOL. Just hilarious in a sad way!
I wrote a letter to my sister-in-laws a couple years after divorce was final. I explained why the marriage ended, why I was no contact with FW and Switzerland friends and asked to be notified in the event of his death. I’m content to know that history has not been re-written as AP entertains them at my (former) table.
Yes. Friends and family were told. Hell, I told strangers. It was not my shame to bear. Although when I was stuck in the initial fog he convinced me to not tell my mother, because she would judge (ya think?!) and I was not sure where this was all going so I kept my mouth shut and even asked my father, who we did tell, to do the same. When I finally told her, I apologized both to her and to my dad, and I think they both understood I was in an impossible place at the time, as well as recognizing that cheater was a self-serving manipulator. The hardest not tell has been our daughter. The gift that keeps on giving is having to dole out in age appropriate (and wanted) bits of information what a sh*theel her father is. I have to forgive myself constantly for unknowingly bringing her into this situation. He didn’t give me a say. Which is why where I can tell, I do. I’m not going to be silenced or burdened by the shame of his poor choices otherwise.
I stayed silent for years. After all he kept suggesting new counselors. So, he wanted to reconcile, right?! Eventually I decided that my silence was making me complicit in my own abuse. I was wandering through my days in an ever increasing functional depression and emerging health issues. Cheaty McLiarface liked it like that because he was still in control of the narrative. Outing him to friends and family served to show me who had ethics and boundaries and who needed to be left behind with the rest of the mirage that was my life. Painful in the beginning but freeing in the end.
In time, yes. I struggled with the shame that it was somehow my fault until I realized that it wasn’t. He had chosen addiction, porn, abandonment, and all the rest of the wild mess.
And then I learned that you find out who is really on your side in these things. Push the rest to the outskirts and move on to better chapters. You may be the only one with evidence, or not. Doesn’t matter, own the reality and don’t let people say that you are crazy and made this up.
Happy Friday!
I am not on social media (thank God!) but we had a very large newsletter mailing list.
In our circles I knew that it is entirely the female chump/victim who would get immediately labeled bitter and unforgiving if I shared the reason for our divorce to our whole newsletter list. (Thank you patriarchy/misogyny). And it would likely be “Poor cheater ex, that I was such a bad Christian wife to make him “fall” in this way.”
So I wrote: “If you would like to know more about this circumstance, please contact me directly at my new email address.”
A very small percentage did, in fact, reach out and I told the truth to them (adjusting the level of detail as I shared). A few said they didn’t want to know why but just wrote to say they were sorry to see us split.
One former church mate wrote “I just don’t understand divorce.” (Well, bully for you up there on that high horse with your faithful husband of many decades!). I replied “I never thought I would *have* to try to understand divorce, never thought I would be here. What I don’t understand is how there are people who go about this world not truly understanding MARRIAGE.” I never heard from her after that and that’s fine with me.
Yes, it hurt to see the relatively low numbers of those who wrote to me – I lost a lot of my former network. But I also got to see how golden and true most of the people who did reach out really are. No regrets om telling those whom I did.
That’s the best rebuttal – asking if they understand MARRIAGE and the concept of building on a foundation of trust and friendship.
There are a surprising amount of people who just want the status of being married above all else.
You love yourself enough to know that’s BS.
Well, after 3 years of an affair, my ex outed himself, telling not only me (my D-day) but also others. This made him a BIG MAN. The noble confessor.
Of course, FWs are gonna FW. And so, he whitewashed everything: “We just fell in love.” “I only lied about one thing.” “I made one mistake.” It was like describing the Chernobyl disaster as a minor blip in energy production.
And when he was shocked that people weren’t reacting sympathetically, he slipped into woe-is-me mode: “I’m suffering so much.” “I’m sad every day.” “Spinach got everything.” Fascinating, since I was still not eating, crying constantly, and losing weight that I didn’t need to lose.
I didn’t take out a billboard or use social media, but in conversations with friends (and some strangers), I did get my version of events out there. I’d be damned if he was going to steal my narrative and get away with more lies.
And telling my story, it turned out, was part of how I healed.
I was planning to out him to HR because they have a strict policy about that but I did not based on legal advice. I did tell his family but the reaction wasn’t what I expected and it revealed more about how they are all toxic and dysfunctional than me getting the support that I was hoping for. They brought him back into the family and never reached out to me again. I guess 30 yrs of being married and being a good wife meant nothing to them either. They all bought his story that I was controlling and blah blah blah, he was now free blah blah blah. A real eye opener for sure.
The reactions (or complete lack of reactions/communication) that comes from the truth coming out will certainly weed out people who would encourage or absolve this behavior, or even just not know what else to do with it. His entire side of the family – poof, gone! I only ever heard one funny story from a former girlfriend (not an AP, but someone who came after and was also cheated on/left abhorrently) that she and FW visited his brother and SIL, my former SIL took out a souvenir from our wedding with our faces on it and plopped it down overtly. I don’t think she was pleased with what he did, but I have also not heard from her since it happened.
Right after he told me he found his soulmateCoHOworker, I reached out to his family because I was in shock and I thought they would help me, I don’t know how, maybe talk to him or something? His stepmom is a psychiatrist (!!!) and after 30 yrs I thought they were my family too, but instead they completely ghosted my kids and the grandkids. My therapist said he went back to what was familiar which was a completely dysfunctional family, even the psychiatrist. It’s actually quite sad but the red flags were always there, so not a complete surprise.
I did the same becomingshakti. As soon as I found the emails confirming it was beyond an emotional affair, I was in shock and my mind flicked through the options of who to call. It landed on his brother. Not anyone from my family as I wasn’t sure what the future held, and it would destroy any relationship they had with him. But his brother I trusted and knew he would always be his brother. Also because their Dad had done the same thing. He was great. Said he was so sorry and that even though I didn’t create this, I had choices about what happened next. I didn’t really understand that at the time. I felt like a passenger. He also checked on me a couple of times to make sure I had more support etc. I was so grateful for his response.
Sometimes the best thing to hear is someone saying they’re sorry it happened. I’m glad you had that kind of support.
💕
I did the same. I reached out to my siblings in law, though…felt more comfortable talking with them because his father is a FW and mother had been living in decades of toleration and fear/paralysis (he has two brothers and a chronically and possibly fatally disabled sister who my former MIL took care of seemingly single-handedly, so lots on her plate, plus, according to FW, threats from FW dad should mom have decided to divorce him – the usual overt FWery intended to scare and subjugate). We were only together 8 years, married 6. But, despite having enjoyed the company of the generational contemporaries in his family, the red flags were planted firmly and it was likewise not surprising to me that I was ghosted. The last time I talked with them was after it happened, but before I decided to divorce. I do wonder if anything would have been different if his mother did take them all to live with his grandparents and divorced his FW dad, but it’s no longer my skein to support or untangle. I heard from the same former girlfriend that when they went to visit his mother (FW dad at this point was shacking up with a neighbor down the road, I kid you not), his mother made some comment about him being just like his father. It’s honestly a sad situation.
OMG. The way toxic people live in chaos is too much. I’m glad you’re out of all that.
They regress and fall back into the mud. The irony is that for the entire marriage I encouraged him to see that he was a success story, a person who had overcome the dysfunction of his childhood to create a healthy life.
OMG. Me too! Apparently he didn’t properly individuate from his toxic mother so he morphed me into another mother so he could discard me like he couldn’t do to his real mom. The joke is that he went back to her and the rest of the dysfunction of HIS childhood. Such a cliche. He had a lot of FOO issues I thought I helped him overcome. Guess not…
I didn’t go out of my way to inform his friends or coworkers, but I was completely open and honest, and continue to be, about why my marriage ended. The amazing thing is that once I say that I was chumped, so many women tell me that they were too.
Was it something they were ashamed of? If so, I figure I’m doing a public service.
No, he was outed by an ethics complaint. He instantly became radio active to the mayor and PD.
I believe, he had a plan of keeping me in place for one more year, until the mayor was reelected.
I’m struggling with this right now. My partner did almost everything right afterwards — gave the full story with remorse, a generous divorce settlement, sought out therapy. He did not, however, come clean to his family and let them blame me.
We have a small cultural community. I worry outing him will affect his support network, job, chance for recovery. He was such a ‘nice guy’ I worry about people believing me.
I heard someone say ‘tell the truth early and often, otherwise people will find out and blame you, since you were initially hiding something’. The people I have told who are close to me responded with empathy and support.
I’m truly torn. It feels like a lose-lose situation I wish he didn’t put me in.
Do you still have much contact with his family? If not, there’s little point in telling them IMO. You have your big settlement, so there’s your justice. Most chumps don’t get that and personally I would consider it an adequate replacement for outing him. If you eventually do tell your story, you can just explain that you didn’t tell before because you were worried about a bad reputation impacting on his job and because you wanted to take the high road and not seek revenge. You’ll probably get respect for that.
It’s not “revenge” to tell the truth.
Truth can definitely be used as revenge. It is the intention behind with which the truth is used.
I have had to ask myself this question a few times… am I wanting to do this thing/tell this truth out of spite and anger? If the answer is “yes”, then I (generally) don’t do it. Because I don’t want it to come back to bite me. But if it’s something I can do calmly and rationalise, then I do.
The one time I did something out of revenge/spite, even when I had “if it feels good don’t do it” in my head, was finding her car parked outside my xh home, and leaving a note under the windscreen wiper calling her a couple of choice words. Then I decided “it is done”.
I know that and you know that, but we also know that non-chumps often don’t see it that way. I was trying to advise her how to win people over, so they couldn’t use the “she’s bitter so she must either be lying or she deserved it” excuse for believing the FW.
In my particular case, FW was entangled with the round heeled, spraddle-legged, homewrecking skank who had already caused multiple divorces in various departments in his work location. He was actually aware of her reputation for banging and clanging(telling the spouses herself). I guess that when a Dick’s dick wants what it wants, a hapless FW must follow where he is led. When she outed herself to me, I made the awful discovery that everyone I knew except my blood relations and my children already knew about the affair. I certainly wasn’t going to tell my family, and I didn’t want to share my embarrassment with strangers. I did tell my gynecologist that I felt “soiled”, which I did, when I had to be treated for an STI. What I did was to tell her spouse, thinking I could at least cause her some consequences. As far as I could discover, the other BS had no reaction at all to the big reveal. I was satisfied that I’d done it, but in the end it gained me nothing. I lost my self esteem, my marriage, and a large part of my social group. It still aches.
I outed him to my people and he outed himself to his to prevent me from doing so, as my version would have shocked and appalled them. I know he omitted the more disgusting details, but that was fine with me as long as they knew he was a cheater.
He didn’t have to be outed at work as everyone there knew, even his boss. Such was FW and schmoopie’s arrogance that they didn’t even try to hide it. I heard his boss gave him some hints that he should stop, but having the emotional intelligence of a dung beetle, he is bad at taking hints. The culture at that workplace was gross- drinking at lunch, drunken parties after hours and some pretty awful people working there, including an ex convict, who was FW’s mentor for being an alcoholic and a cheater. Previously to being friends with that cretin, FW had only been a social drinker and AFAIK, had not cheated. He is the kind of weak loser who needs other men to tell him it’s okay to be the a**hole he truly is before he can give himself permission.
He lost the best thing that ever happened to him, OHFFS …
🩷
My ex did most of the outing herself. Long after the divorce, I came across a ton of her text messages that she had been telling anyone on her contact list how happy she was with the AP, and included some quite graphic details. I think I was the only one who didn’t know about the affair.
I wish I had those messages during the divorce, but they were a phone backup on an old hard drive from her computer that I forgot that I had and had been sitting in a box in my storage space with a bunch of other old hard drives. I found it when I started cleaning out my storage area and went through all those hard drives to see what was on them. Anyway, having those messages might have helpful during the divorce.
As for telling anyone who didn’t know, I have no problem doing that. If there are people who I tell that already knew, then I more or less drop them as a friend for knowing but not telling me.
I kinda did? Never in a broadcast-y way, but when I had contact with people who’d previously been our friends, I told them what actually happened. When the teachers observed conflict between us, I told them why.
I haven’t told anyone anything that didn’t actually happen. Don’t want word of your assholery out in the discourse? Don’t be an asshole.
Yes, each time with each cheater. I was not on social media with either but told anyone who would listen. This was an excellent plan for me because I quickly found out who were my true and loyal friends.
I found out who helped my betrayer and I found out who thought cheating was a good way to communicate your disrespect. The church, my job, our social group. It was very easy to find my friends after the smoke died down Neither cheater appreciated it but there was no way I wanted them back so scorched earth.
My lawyer did advise me to not yell in the court room but other than that, the truth came out and I was free from alot of drift wood relatives and friends. It worked for me.
“Driftwood”. I like that. I just been calling them “sheep”. But driftwood is (even more) brainless and aimless. Nice.
Though I think CL is right that chumps using bridge spans and social media diatribes to make the pronouncement probably isn’t a great strategy when custody is involved, I think chumps should not only tell others but ensure the FW in question is aware that others know for their own safety. .
The more the merrier as they say. I think it would even be worth exaggerating how wildly the gossip has spread (chumps can disavow responsibility for this and chalk it up to the daisy chain) because one upside to letting FWs believe “everyone knows” about their double lives that’s not often discussed is that FWs might fear “everyone” could guess their motives in the case any “accidents” were to befall chumps.
In other words, in case a FW and/or schmoopie were secretly planning to off a chump, the affair becoming common knowledge would be a foil because, when someone is mysteriously k*lled, evidence of affairs can trigger far more rigorous investigations by police beyond the usual alibi check on partners because, aside from money, infidelity is seen as one of the leading motives for domestic m*rder.
The really weird thing is that, while police immediately view cheating by either member of a couple as a potential “precipitating factor” in domestic h*micide and will automatically extend this suspicion to any existing affair partners as well, current forensic literature overwhelmingly focuses only on jealousy over real or perceived infidelity on the part of victims.
I can understand why this impression lingers in public perceptions if just because most domestic m*rders are committed by men and “jealousy/possessiveness” is the top reported motive. But it’s also a fact that men are reportedly nearly twice as likely to cheat as women so you’d think that researchers and legal authorities would finally figure out the relevance of the fact that more than half the cases of jealousy-inspired domestic h*micide involved delusional/false suspicions of cheating by victims which would strongly imply projection on the part of perpetrators.
In other words, cheating by perpetrators– not victims– might actually be the most common “precipitating factor.” Police will act on the knowledge that cheaters and side pieces can also have motives to “disappear” chumps because this has pragmatic value in solving cases. But this is still not reflected in the legal literature, forensic science or public perceptions despite the frequency of cases like Chris Watts, Scott Peterson, James Craig, Fotis Dulos, Scott Magnano, etc., etc., etc.
Anyway, from the perspective that cheating is abuse and cheaters are abusers and reports that both cheaters and so-called “mate poachers” tend to be high in psychopathy, I think it’s just basic common sense to take measure to reduce risks of post separation violence, one of which is making sure others know what’s really going on.
When science finally catches up to the fact that cheating and abuse go hand in hand, maybe one day chumps who “tell” will be less likely to penalized by courts and non-disparagement clauses in divorce agreements might be modified not to include factual reports of domestic violence or factors statistically related to DV like coercive control and cheating.
I believe there is also an important difference between telling people for the sake of our own safety and expecting a sympathetic reaction. Even if, in many cases, we can’t hope for the latter (because too many people are cowards or enablers), we may still need to do the former (preferably in a brief and concise manner, sticking to the facts).
It would also be prudent not to go anywhere with the FW where an accident could easily happen without witnesses. For example, hiking (Gerhard Konig case), boating (Lynette Hooker), etc.
Yes, I know it hasn’t been established that Hooker’s husband pushed her overboard. Maybe he didn’t, but his story stinks to me. I’ll bet he has an AP and k*lled his wife to get rid of her.
What do y’all think? Have I read too many thrillers?
It’s my misfortune to say that I now know truth can be stranger than fiction. My seemingly physically non-threatening ex the FW narcopath was considering a fatal accident for me, in cahoots with his criminal main escort GF (he had many) or not I will never know. FW was livid that I told a few friends about his cheating. See, I was getting in the way of his Impression management!
Without knowing all the research HOAC cites because I hadn’t found CL yet, my instinct was to sing like a bird so that if anything happens to me someone somewhere remembers to mention it to the police. The more who know the better!
Great points. Chumps don’t necessarily have to appeal for sympathy just to ask bystanders to be watchful for threats to their safety or, at the very least, not to hasten their demise by sharing personal information about them with people who mean them ill. To counteract accusations of catastrophizing, chumps could wanly rattle off a standard spiel about not being su*cidal or accident prone so if, during the contentious settlement stage of divorce, anything mysteriously happens to them, the onus would probably fall on their soon to be ex or his/her asset-grubbing new sidekick.
Even if they’re Swiss as h*ll, out of pure selfishness most people would want to avoid either being accessories to m*rder or collateral (50% of the victims of domestic h*micide are bystanders, cops, kids or friends of the victim). If the bystander in question expresses incredulity, the chump can just shrug and say, “I’d love it if you’re right but my lawyer has seen some red flags and has advised me not to take any chances”… then immediately change the subject to weather or sports and make an exit.
Your post reminds me of the Gerhard Konig case, the doctor in Hawaii who tried to kill his wife after he found out she was involved in an “emotional” affair. She said he attacked her when they were hiking and tried to inject her with something. She fought back, and other hikers heard her screaming and came to help her. He claimed she attacked him first when he testified on his own behalf. (Yeah, right.) The jury believed her and not him. It didn’t help that he confessed to his son (who also testified.) I don’t think he’s been sentenced yet.
Granted, he was the chump, but that doesn’t justify attempted murder. It justifies getting a tough lawyer and trying to get the maximum share of their assets.
I do wonder how this would have gone if not for the other hikers. I suspect he would have injected her, thrown her over the edge, and claimed it was an accident. You have to wonder how many other times inconvenient wives and girlfriends have been pushed over an edge while hiking…
From what I read, no one ever found the syringe. My best guess is that when the other hikers found them, he had the presence of mind to throw it over the edge, and it’ll never be recovered. It would be interesting to know what was in it.
I followed the story and, given the guy’s history of coercion and control in two marriages and the fact that he was clearly capable of murder all along (and, according to the victim, sexual as$ault, it’s hard to say whether the victim is a classic FW or not. She might be since nowhere is it written that an abuser can’t end up getting abused (in fact, their risk is higher than average due to keeping company with “like minds”).
But especially because her stepson defended her over his own father, I still think there’s a strong chance Arielle Konig might be among the ranks of battered women who are statistically slightly more prone to “monkey branch” their way out of dangerous relationships if just to have a bodyguard on hand and a place to stay with their kids as they make their harrowing escapes. It’s not a great idea since the risk of landing with another abuser is statistically doubled (abusers specialize in playing rescuer) but it’s at least understandable. The things people do in life and death straits don’t necessarily reflect on baseline character since the same person might never cheat on a healthy relationship.
Anyway, the little anti-victim-blaming theory I developed while doing victim advocacy is that whatever horrendous, life-destroying or lethal thing an abuser eventually ends up doing to a victim (like assault, weaponizing child custody, causing Dickensian level financial or reputational ruin or attempted m*rder) is sufficient to explain everything the victim did prior, whether it was being paralyzed with Stockholm syndrome or “monkey branching” because both can be survival responses to impending threat.
This is obviously not to be confused with cheaters/abusers who play at being victims of their victims (as they all do) but it does apply to situations that end in threats to life or children because I think all humans have an ancient unconscious “risk management” faculty that picks up on the violent or m*rderous capacity in people in close proximity. But the problem is that abusers get a lot of help from dah patriarchy and junk self help resources in confusing prospective victims and discouraging them from listening to and heeding animal instincts.
I was dating an unattached male work colleague, but we were keeping it secret because he claimed it could subject him to HR discipline for “sexual harassment.” His explanation didn’t make a whole lot of sense, but I figured I just didn’t understand it, and I really didn’t care about the secrecy. I was just dating for “fun” anyway. No big deal.
We had gone to visit the USS Missouri (WWII battleship) when she was in a nearby port, and after a lovely tour of the ship and learning lots of interesting new facts, we were departing via the main gangway. It was steep and I tend toward clumsy, so my boyfriend was holding my hand. Concentrating on my footing, I didn’t notice the cameras from the local news affiliate at the bottom of the gangway.
So we were outed on the 5:00 news. Someone had recorded the broadcast and they were playing it on the unit VCR when I showed up at work the next day.
Yes, I married him five years later. And yes, he was a cheater. I now wonder how many OTHER women he was also dating who may have had schedules more compatible with his than mine was.
Haha I thought you were going to say that his *wife* found out from the 5 o’clock news!
That’s a great Jumbotron-esque story! 🤣
Yes- when asked, I certainly made people aware of a few facts they were previously unaware of.
When court was finally done, I broke my own quiet presence and rules for not talking about personal stuff on social media and sent this out on my socials.
To all who have stood by me, stood up for me, and stood behind me during these last two years of hell.
Thank you.
To those who called out abuse, believed me, listened to me and validated my experience.
Thank you.
To those who never felt they had to ‘pick a side’ and saw things for what they were then acted on it- no matter the history, no matter the longevity of relationships. You were betrayed and lied to as well and share my pain.
Thank you.
To those who watched it all and listened to what was said without checking the facts.
To those who turned away or turned a blind eye.
To those who never asked .
To those whose cowardice came to light
Thank you- I know who and what you are now.
Thank you all for the part you elected to play.
Applause.
My first husband was a prolific cheater. I married him during my last year of school, and then put him through school for an accounting degree. (Which he never actually got — he graduated with an empty diploma and was told that he could get the diploma if he finished a 2 credit English requirement over the summer.). We moved a thousand miles away so he could take his dream job, and continued to cheat. I caught on to the cheating about the same time his employer caught on to the lack of an actual degree. I kicked him out and filed for divorce. (Not as quick or easily done as it sounds for the purposes of this story.)
He was in danger of losing his job over lying on his resume, and was panicking, so he asked me for alimony. (He was making more money than me, had never brought a single paycheck of that home in the 10 months he’d been employed at his Big Ten accounting firm, and hadn’t saved a cent either.) I told him I wasn’t paying him alimony, and if he pursued it, I would out the cheating and the lying to his family. He backed off the alimony claim, and in the end the divorce was fairly quick and easy considering where I filed.
I don’t know that his parents knew why I was divorcing him at the time, but his sister is the one who told me about the church choir director, the three sopranos and a couple of altos, the nun, and the next door neighbor. She was my best friend and I went crying to her when I found out about my sister, the woman he rear-ended at a stoplight and the woman who interviewed me for a job I really wanted who outed herself because she thought I was his sister, not his wife.
My former sister in law is still a good friend, and his parents kept in touch with me for the rest of their lives. Every year on our wedding anniversary, my first FIL sent me a letter apologizing for the way his son treated me. I miss him — the father, not the ex-husband.
You hit the unicorn jackpot for inlaws.
I did hit the jackpot for in-laws. My second set were horrible, but the third time around I hit the jackpot again. My step-daughter decided to keep me in her life, and her mother and step-father are still friends. Also, one of the FWs sisters. I cannot pick men for $#!t, but I am really good at choosing in-laws. Two out of three!
I think even people with nonFWitty partners would envy your inlaws.
Hehe I’m sure you didn’t “help” his employer find out that he didn’t actually have a degree! Employers don’t go calling universities *after* you’re already hired and working!😏😂🤜🏼🤛🏼
You’re right, but maybe something made them suspicious, and somebody double checked.
Could have been a disappointed OW as well.
Could have been anything, but it wasn’t me.
I told anyone and everyone while it was happening and then warned several more after it ended. She is a dangerous predator and I felt an obligation. Anyways, all of the people I told repeated back to her word for word what I said so she came after me and semi-threatended me. For this reason, I no longer tell anyone. BUT I think if the opportunity presented itself to me in the form of someone I know being lined up as the next victim, I would definitely tell that person.
Most people don’t want to get involved in tit for tats and back and forths like this so the fact that these people were running to your ex with “intel” on you is likely a testament to the peril you were in. Basically it sounds like all these bystanders are subconsciously so terrified of your ex that they’re groveling for amnesty from her using gossip about you as a sacrificial offering. You typically see that kind of behavior around really, really dangerous people.
Oh wow, thank you for this! I think this is completely accurate. Gives me some really good perspective on the situation and thank you!
You might have dodged a bigger bullet than you know. From harrowing personal experience, I’ve honestly only seen this kind of suck-uppy clusterf*ck around sadistically evil and/or violent so-called psychopaths– the types that might either injure or kill you or seriously destroy your life if you cross them.
Otherwise average gutless bystanders never seem to stick their necks out like this or risk making enemies on behalf of less dangerous garden variety jerks unless there are significant perks involved (serious cash, marketable status, etc.). This is why I suspect the rabid loyalty to psychos is based less on psychos’ supposed “charm” and more on bystanders’ gut sense that not complying might be downright dangerous.
To me that’s actually the secret reason a certain type of “charm” is so potent– because there’s a kind of menace underlying it that says, “This is my good side. Would you like to see my bad side?” Basically, I think negative bystanders tend to go into a type of boxer’s “clinch” with the most dangerous monkey in the room as a survival strategy. It may be largely unconscious but proof that there’s a kind of willfulness or bias to it is how angry these spineless types get if you try to point out that they’re in thrall to someone dangerous.
I found this out the hard way and then out of morbid curiosity kind of “polled” a cluster of flying monkeys in a workplace stalking/harassment situation and discovered all had grown up with degrees of domestic violence. So I figured it’s not “just anyone” who goes belly up to creeps but always people who were pre-conditioned to do so.
The disturbing part of it is how dirt common it is for people to be “pre-conditioned” in this way. Another disturbing thing is that sometimes you only find this out by watching how people behave in a situation where they’re called upon to “choose sides” between an obvious perpetrator and obvious victims. It’s why I ended up thinking of these types as “Manchurian candidates” because this perp-coddling tendency often contradicts their stated values or identities. For instance, I’ve personally seen avowed feminists and “woke” types suddenly sucking up to credibly alleged rapists as if someone flipped a switch in their personalities. That was actually more shocking to me than dealing with workplace predators.
I’m wondering now if frenemy is some disordered freak herself. She supported the divorce at first, even egged me on when I waivered, then turned on me and kids by ditching us as friends in a ‘you no longer have a husband so you’re second class’ in a shocking way.
Frenemy tried to collect info from us during the divorce to possibly share with FW narcopath.
She’d always been an inveterate gossip and was licking her lips at playing both sides and having info on both me and FW to gossip about and derive sadistic pleasure from our misery.
My ex was paranoid I would post about his activities on social media and even tried to have his attorney address the issue. I think the threat was much more powerful than carrying it out. I had evidence of him using a sex worker, and if his employer found out, he would lose his job and career. I still had children at home and potential custody issues, so I was selective in who I told.
However, during financial discovery, I had the banks look for accounts in all of his aliases. I’m not sure how it happened, but when you Google him now, you can see he’s connected to about 10 different names. The beauty of this is that he was fully exposed after I secured an unmodifiable divorce settlement.
These days, I don’t consider anyone a true friend unless they know what happened. It’s impossible to have an authentic, honest relationship without sharing parts of the story. My adult children know enough, but not everything. If they ask, I will tell them.
How did you get the bank to do that? I’m genuinely curious. The forensic accountant was too expensive and my crap lawyer didn’t help me at all
I discovered that FW had two APs, one in each of the two different towns where we had homes. I found the receipts for Christmas gifts and Valentine’s gifts. Before he moved out, he suggested that I shouldn’t tell anyone what happened in case we were to reconcile. I told him, point blank, that we weren’t reconciling. In a separate conversation he suggested that he would tell our friends that it was my fault and I felt the need to provide accurate information before he spread his lies. I certainly didn’t feel any need to keep his secrets to avoid tarnishing his reputation so I texted or spoke with the friends who mattered to me. I have no regrets. That was roughly a year ago. He’s with just one of the APs now. Our divorce is still not finalized, but I haven’t ruled out letting the current AP know that he was cheating on her too at one point in time.
That information could be useful leverage on him. I’d keep it to yourself for that purpose.
I vote yes! That would be pretty sweet to see FW go from three birds-in-hand to none! And if AP1 doesn’t dump his azz, at least she’ll get the smackdown of finding out that she aint speecial and she will be pizzed off at him!😂
I’m currently in the midst of telling our three adult children about my separation and pending divorce from their father due to his years-long affair.
It’s tough, even though they are grown.
And I’ve been surprised to learn that they all suspected this.
How closed my eyes have been!
I told a handful of ladies who lunch at our club – a club to which he still belongs and of which he was pathetically proud. It had already gotten around, to some extent, but I knew that telling the right ones was better than hiring the town crier. It torpedoed his reputation – his drinking problem hadn’t done it much good, but this took it to another level. Friends tell me nobody speaks to him or his plain-Jane sidepiece.
Yes. I did this too, but it wasn’t planned. The first person I told is the biggest gossip I have ever known. She is my son’s best friend’s mother. I didn’t regret it, because it meant that I didn’t have to tell everyone myself.
Women I didn’t even know would meet me at events and hiss “I just want you to know I do not think this is okay!”
Had her text messages and journal entries on Facebook until after the divorce was finalized.
Her family squawked about “defamation” but it isn’t defamation if it is true.
Her first mother in law saw it.
Apparently caused her “some discomfort” to explain to her first mother in law.
Too bad.
After being harassed and stalked by the AP after going no contact I found out about her lengthy arrest records. I sent copies to both SIL and and his mother to out this Ho who bragged about being a grandmother to my grandchild. What a prize the FW won. Let’s just say FW achieved his goal of downsizing.
My FW-ex’s bonkers sudden discard was so Obviously Assholish that it turned out I didn’t need to say anything to any of our mutuals who had eyes and ears.
FW had suddenly walked out on me & 3 kids including an infant, mere weeks after a cross country move along with my retired parents, who he’d also tricked into moving. “Who does that?!” FW revealed himself to everyone with a brain who heard the story. I ghosted a couple of “oh gosh I don’t know who to believe” dummies, and apparently they finally figured it out on their own maybe because of my complete silence and a friend telling them I was “not at liberty to say.”
During the litigation, I kept my cards very close until I got a good settlement. It’s 10+ years later, and everybody who mattered had clocked his chicanery immediately. The less you can act like you care about what random other people think of your FW, the more quickly you can get to the monumental task of rebuilding your one precious life.
I immediately told my friends that FW doesn’t talk to. And some ride share drivers.
As time and the divorce wore on, I stayed mum because FW has a mean, vengeful streak and there is no benefit to poking the bear. I had the disparagement clause removed from my boilerplate divorce agreement to guard against FW having any excuse to take me to court (he’s a lawyer) in future if I do choose to tell. My two grown daughters saw over the years how emotionally abusive FW was, such that the divorce made sense without the sordid details. His sisters will still be his corner no matter what anyway, so what’s the point? The people he worked with probably knew already anyway. It speaks volumes that I no longer communicate with FW or have anything to do with him.
I was frustrated at the time and went nuclear. I posted Schmoopie on She’s a Homewrecker. I don’t really have any regrets, was just calling ’em like I see ’em. Their marriage is a disaster and I am grateful to be far outside the blast radius.
A storm rages within us… I think of all the things I thought about doing, with so much hurt and anger to fuel it, and didn’t. And so I think the things I did do… well he/they (and I) can be grateful we all got off lightly! 😆
As many do, my FW had an affair with a young woman who had been one of his students. At the time, he was teaching as adjunct faculty at a university, she’s 11 years younger. He also works at the university and she worked for him, as well. I’m not entirely sure how long their affair went on… he only admitted to “about 2 years” at the time of discovery, which would have made her 24 at the time it started.. but I suspect it was years before that.
Upon discovery, I found her father’s LinkedIn page. He’s one of those people with a huge network and we’re both in “tech” fields. I wanted to send him a message, but wanted to be sure he’d see it… so I added him first. Within 15 minutes he approved my request. I sent a brief, to-the-point message that his daughter had been having an affair with my husband for years, and that, as a parent to a daughter myself, I thought it was pertinent information for him to have. I waited until I could see that he read the message, and then deleted him as a contact.
About 2 days later, I got a phone call from my FW (this is a guy who wouldn’t even text me back prior to discovery) telling me that I needed to leave schmoopie alone because she filed a police report for me harassing her – hilarious, given that they live 2 states away, that I didn’t do anything illegal, and that they’re in Chicago… pretty sure Chicago PD has actual problems to deal with.
They’re now engaged (we divorced at the end of 2023) and the only thing I remain curious about is how schmoopie’s father feels about FW. He’s not a prize by any parent’s standards.
That’s a crappy father