The Greatest FW of Them All
The Friday Challenge is to add your cheater to the Greatest FW of Them All contest. Can they win the crown? Yes, we’re doing the Pain Olympics today.
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Sarah and I were recording a new podcast the other day and, as we are want, discussing f*ckwits. Sarah thought there should be a sliding scale of f*ckwittery. And I conceded that yes, some FWs are worse than others.
This was in the context of workplace affairs. Some cheaters are just opportunists and they’ll go for the nearest easy conquest. Whereas, some of these freaks are predators and should be in jail. We’re talking minors, people in vulnerable positions, flagrant abuses of power.
So, we thought we’d put it to you:
Who Is The Greatest FW of Them All?
The temptation here is to name celebrities and politicians, but we’ll have to keep it to your own personal sphere. (If you were married to a celebrity/politician and your NDA will let you, spill the tea!)
I did a version of this contest in the early years of the blog and the winner — hands down — was a FW who stole his children’s piggy bank money to take his mistress to Disney World. The very same destination those kids had been saving up to go to.
Game over. I had people from Disney writing to me to comp this woman a vacation and she wouldn’t take it, out of pride or humility, or something. But geez. The FW bar has been set VERY high. I’ve never run that contest again.
But Sarah wants to. So, tell me your awful stories, CN. But do write around the Google sensors please! FW for f*ckwit, try euphemisms like “paid girlfriend” or “seggs addiction”. (I hate it too, but it’s the dystopian AI hellscape we live in.)
Better yet, leave us a voicemail!
These are always improved by your own inimitable telling, so you can leave us an anonymous message at SpeakPipe. Or at the Tell Me How You’re Mighty contact page.
The winner gets bragging rights, and (if I could only afford it) a life-time of therapy.
TGIF!
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Despite all of the horrible things that she was responsible for (and there were many), having read some of the stories told by members of CN here over the years, I don’t think that I can put Ex-Mrs LFTT forwards for the prize.
Ex-Mrs LFTT is not exceptional in any way (this will come as unwelcome news to her) even in her prowess as a Cheater ….. I mean, she was caught out by our 11 year old daughter. Youngest daughter (then 11) had had her suspicions for nearly a year before she discovered Ex-Mrs LFTT’s texts to her AP on an iPad that Ex-Mrs LFTT had synched her iPhone to. The rest (give or take a huge legal bill, 95% of the equity in the house that we owned and nearly a quarter of my pension pot) is history.
But, if you really want to know the category that she might be competitive for an award in, it would be for “Lying to your Legal Team and getting found out.” She really excelled in this category … to the point that, following one particularly egregious episode in Court where she lied about a loan that she had taken out without my knowledge, but which she claimed that I was still responsible for, her Barrister was heard to refer to her as “That Blo*dy Woman.”
I do not miss her, not even one bit.
LFTT
My FW got caught up in charming his (young female) lawyer and judge and swore a financial statement filed in court that omitted a six figure amount from annual income. I guess he drew the line at lying to his employer and tax authorities and fessed to me that there will be a discrepancy between the court and tax docs. It was a catalyst I needed to get him to settle (not a great one for me but done is better than great in my case).
Ooh, mine might be quite strong in this category too! Also if there’s a Lying to The Judge and Getting Caught (in Court) Category, I think he’d be quite a strong contender for that too.
AristocraticChump,
Perhaps there should be a “F*ck Wit F*ckery in the Courthouse” category?
Another of Ex-Mrs LFTT’s Court House lies (via her barrister) to the Judge was a statement that she was not in a relationship with her AP and that he was “Merely a gentleman friend who takes her out to dinner once in a while.”
My Barrister sent her Barrister a screenshot of Ex-Mrs LFTT’s public FaceBook profile, which stated that she was in a relationship with him and had been since before she left the kids and I. I am led to believe the screenshot was accompanied with a note that stated words to the effect “He’s no gentleman and it’s a lot more than just dinner.”
LFTT
Dumber than a box of rocks she is.
Oh, and how about a cross-category of annoying both judges and lawyers!
My ex attempted to overturn our pre-nuptial agreement in court, at the last minute surprise. Im in the uk.
He claimed that I coerced him into signing it, even though it was wholly based on a pre-nuptial agreement that his own cousin had signed with her husband and that she had suggested we have.
There was no proof that I had ever tried to coerce him and I had fully believed that he was happy to sign it at the time.
The judge let the agreement stand, so my husband then tried to blackmail me, seemingly I believe in order to increase his financial settlement.
My lawyer was amazing and so were the police.
I think it made it quite difficult for my ex’s lawyers to act for him after he’d tried all that!
In the end I think his barrister had a very firm chat with him.
It was all completly horrendous.
Definitely! Great category call.
Mine tried to pretend to the Judge that his long-term, secret girlfriend was in fact nothing more than his “lodger”. With her two daughters also in residence with them.
The Judge invited him to explain why his “lodger” and her family weren’t paying him any rent and hadn’t ever, in fact paid him any rent….
The Judge went on to note that this seemed to be a somewhat unusual “lodging arrangement”…..
My ex then tried to explain to the Judge that this non-collection of rent was in fact an act of splendid beneficence on his part towards a co-worker in need, who required housing, with her two daughters. (The secret girlfriend was a co-worker.)
The Judge didn’t buy it.
My ex also had a bit of trouble trying to explain why he had a joint bank account with his “lodger”. This joint bank account also happened to have been opened with her, using her previous flat as their joint address, dated to while he was still officially living me and also pre-dating the house where he claimed she was his lodger.
Thats hilarious about Ex-Mrs LFTT’s facebook relationship status, though Im sure it wasn’t at the time.
AristcraticChump,
The funny thing about her FaceBook relationship wasn’t that it proved her infidelity …. it was that it proved to the Judge and her Legal team that she was a liar. That mattered.
And while I didn’t laugh about it at the time, I can now. I know that I wasn’t just married to a lying Cheater …. I was married to a moron.
LFTT
FW narcopath would undoubtedly be a semi-finalist although perhaps not win the crown.
Decades long secret por* habit, serial cheating and very substantial financial abuse. In hindsight realizing when i was caring for disabled child after surgery FW was off to the strip mall escorts Exposed our family to bunny boilers and ultimately extortion schemes by the hohoho criminal madame cum side pieces. Considering A fatal accident for me. Criminal activities I suspect cannot prove beyond the above list.
Once during D he stole $100 out of teen’s account even though he’s a rich mofo because he was throwing a pity party for himself. Tried to blame it on the bank ROFLMAO!
During his Thanksgiving week of custody time no fun plans for kids then FW lied to them he had urgent work trip, dumped them on me early, then secretly went to tropical resort with latest gold digger.
Mine was garden-variety, textbook FWittery, but the CN stories that leave my jaw hanging open are the ones where she cheats during chump’s cancer treatment or where he cheats while chump is pregnant.
We may need subcategories. Cheats on the Pregnant. Jesus FWs. Cancer FWs. Etc.
What’s sad is that there enough stories like this to warrant subcategories!!! I’m 64, and I guess at my age, nothing should shock or even surprise me anymore. But some of the stories I read here do.
Hmm. Lets see. How about a category for FW’s who pretend to be suicidal, weaponise their military / police / fire service (insert public role here) but actually want you dead and threaten you with a loaded weapon, adding that little extra element of excitement into an already deliberately confusing and terrifying mix? This is a special category with bonus points if they’re running a well-organised secret double life at the same time AND can fool a trained medical counsellor as well. Joking aside, I didn’t know this category of fw existed until I came here. It was revelatory to me, to discover that anyone would actually pretend to be suicidal and that others here had dealt with the same sort of things. As always, a huge, HUGE thank you to Chumplady and Chump Nation for all the humour, solidarity and kindness.
My father used to point guns at me to get me to do what he wanted. He implied that he was threatening suicide, but the gun was pointed almost but not quite at me. And I kind of thought that must be just how fathers behaved . . . . I was a teenager and had grown up in that house. (And he was the LESS abusive parent.)
Reading the stories here, that kind of bull feces is just that: bull feces. Somehow, it seems a whole lot LESS normal when you’re reading about it happening to someone else. Or when you’re looking at it from a distance of over half a century as I am now.
Part of my Cheaters schtick was along these lines. He had a successful military career (although didnt get promoted with his peers. I think he had gotten himself in trouble having affairs with coworkers but it was hidden from me). He didnt point a loaded gun at me but rather put my head in a wrestling lock and told me that he could snap my neck in an instant. I didnt see anything really strange about that at the time (red flag).
He tried for quite a while to get me to do something that made me look insane so that he would have an excuse to divorce me. In private, he told me he was going to commit an act of public violence and because he told me, if I didnt tell the authorities, I would be complicit in it. There was nothing written or recorded or in his history. If I had ever told police, he would have calmly invited the investigators into our home and shown his bona fides and explained that I had mental problems.
Considering the crap I fell for, it’s remarkable that I saw the foolishness in this particular scheme.
I am so sorry. I hate that he put you through all that. I hope you’re long free of all his cruelty and terror.
I never tell that story in real life (including to my kids) because it just sounds too crazy. I find it affirming that you all believe me.
For a long time after he died, he showed up in my dreams. Often it was a situation where he was suddenly alive again and I had to figure out what to do because I had entered relationship with the man who became my second husband. I wanted to go off and be with Col Great Guy (new H) but some social norm was demanding I return to Cheater. Im relieved that circumstances allowed me to see him not living so that my inner self could eventually integrate the fact that he was not alive. Those dreams have mostly stopped.
Also, while probably not really a contender (because too common), cheaters who engage in workplace sexual favoritism. In my experience, they often leave a trail of destruction in their wake, including failed businesses, harassment charges and destroyed careers (for example, when schmoopie is given free reign to bully her coworkers, which happened to me twice and forced me to change careers every time).
You’ve described my FW to a T. He elevated Mrs. Bendover to manager, replacing our 30 years experienced manager who additionally had over 30 IQ points on Bendover. The result was the loss of 20 employees (including that manager) in less than a year. We normally carried 8 employees at at time. Two of our new hires started their shift at 8 am, walked out for a coffee break at 10, and never even came back for their paychecks. The most important thing in FW’s life was his practice and he nearly burned it to the ground. That’s one way that I knew his affair was “true love”, which I now call “undiagnosed brain aneurysm”.
My cheater perhaps cannot be entered for the top prize, despite all the forms of abuse I was subjected to during my 29 years of marriage and the sheer awfulness of having me HOST the OW overnight TWICE – cooking and setting up the guest bedroom for her while he grinned like the Cheshire cat at the dinner table, sitting between the two of us.
But if there was a top prize in a subcategory for being a Jesus cheater in full-time overseas ministry and *getting away with his affair and abuse of me*, he would win I think.
He replaced me with a younger woman from the very country we dedicated our life and young family to serve almost before the ink was dry on our divorce. He is STILL in a high leadership position in that ministry and flaunts his new Asian bride in his fundraising endeavors in ways that are sickening. And people buy it and faithfully support their ministry. That takes a certain kind of charm and deception which is off the charts.
My FW had his (coworker – of us both) AP over to our house many times for “play dates” for the kids. She had our kid over for play dates too – but I was never invited to her apartment. FW claimed it was too small. Later I learned it was because the two of them would go make out on the balcony or have sex in the bedroom closet while the kids watched TV.
I had her over for Christmas because she was going through a divorce and it was the first Christmas without her kids and I FELT SORRY FOR HER. Likewise I made her a birthday dinner because I felt bad she was by herself. I was so naive.
That’s sheer evil, ISawtheLight! I have a glimpse of how it feels and I am sorry. (()).
I’d like to nominate my ex for Greatest FW of Them All.
This wasn’t “he had an affair with a coworker.
No. My husband was living a whole secret second life. I eventually discovered **thousands** of online reviews he’d written about escorts over the course of our 20 year marriage. Thousands. Apparently while I thought he was grabbing a sandwich during his lunch break at work like a normal person, he was busy visiting and then rating paid girlfriends like he was the damn Zagat Guide for STDs.
And these weren’t, “Nice personality/ Would recommend.”
These were graphic play-by-plays. Who would do what without protection. Who was “worth the money. Who offered “Greek” without extra pay, (google it, or better yet, don’t.) Who had the “best body” Which women looked older than their photos. Which ones he wanted to go back to. He critiqued (most likely underage, trafficked) human beings with far more care than he’d ever once shown his own wife.
I wasn’t just betrayed. I got to read a disgusting archive of my husband’s extracurricular activities, lovingly documented in his own words, one sleazy review at a time.
The irony? He thought he was some kind of criminal mastermind.
Buddy… you left a digital trail so enormous that if the FBI had been investigating “World’s Biggest Dumbass,” they’d have wrapped the case up before lunch. (by the way, lunch breaks are for when you want a sandwich).
He didn’t just cheat. He crowdsourced his depravity, published it for the internet, and somehow expected to stay married to me.
I didn’t lose a husband.
I escaped a cautionary tale.
He’s a true contender. Truly a depraved guy. A literal user of women. I’m so sorry.
GTT, you endured a ghastly experience and I have so much empathy for you. For some reason, I find the “paying for sex” aspect as especially horrible because of the disease exposure, abuse of all concerned and financial abuse needed to fund such a life. Like you said, many of the sex workers were likely trafficked, so it was criminally wrong as well as morally wrong.
I agree with you that you didnt lose a husband. My experience was different but I also feel like. in the end, I didnt lose a husband either. My late-spouse started using blame and control on me within days of getting married. We never had a relationship that I would describe as a real marriage…it was just him stringing me along some future-faking fantasy.
I got married after my cheater died and to those really close to me, I say that I wanted to try marriage once.
Oh, GTT, my heart breaks for you. As I read your horror story, my body started feeling the same gut-wrenching anguish it did when, years ago, I had found evidence of my ex’s duplicity.
My discovery was nowhere as bad as yours, and I am still to this day traumatized. I hope you are able to reframe, if not completely erase, the memory of what you saw.
We have a contender! Years ago someone wrote to me who was married to similar, they were overseas. And she sent me the links to his reviews. It was completely stomach turning. There was also seggs tourism to Thailand. So I imagine that many he was reviewing were minors. It strikes me as modern day slavery. This kind of twisted capitalism and consumerism.
I’d send you the links to the reviews, but the website was seized by the Department of Justice in 2019 and the owner was charged with 36 counts of possessing child p888rn8gr8phy, one count of unlawful x activity and one count of using a two-way device to facilitate a felony.
To answer Eirene, I doubt very much that I will ever forget OR forgive, but I have managed, over the last 10 years, to build a MUCH better f*ckwit free-life.
😱 😱 😱 😱 😱
Edited for the AI censor bots.
I think you win! Ugh! He was just awful!
I’m certain that my FW wouldn’t win in this contest. He was just a run of the mill FW as far as I know. I do admit that I don’t know much about what he was up to, thank the Lord. And I know I don’t want to know anything more because I would be even more grossed out than I already am. Ew.
He loses this contest because he’s a loser all the way around. And I win because I’m FW free!
Y’all have a FW free life, Chump Nation!
I would never compete with women who have been left with young children.
My FW however, does deserve at least a third runner up for leaving me with life long scars. I was a trusting sap; I wish I had discovered it sooner. Maybe, I wouldn’t have left because I didn’t want to live in poverty with a son to raise, but I could have told him to do his thing, and we would be living separately until my son was grown. I would have had those years to concentrate on my job and self rather than helping him build his to waltz away with the town bike.
The good news is I was blessed a few years after we D’d with an amazing, kind man. He was truly the love of my life for 35 years. I was also very successful in my work; once I started concentrating on me.
I would never compete with women who have been left with young children.
My FW however, does deserve at least a third runner up for leaving me with life long scars. I was a trusting sap; I wish I had discovered it sooner. Maybe, I wouldn’t have left because I didn’t want to live in poverty with a son to raise, but I could have told him to do his thing, and we would be living separately until my son was grown. I would have had those years to concentrate on my job and self rather than helping him build his to waltz away with the town bike.
The good news is I was blessed a few years after we D’d with an amazing, kind man. He was truly the love of my life for 35 years. I was also very successful in my work; once I started concentrating on me.
Could I nominate my father for the award? He got himself “engaged” to one of my high school classmates while still married to my mother. Then he cried to me about how Mother was being mean to him — she told him he could have his danged divorce, but she was keeping the savings, the farm, and the cars and he could go get a danged JOB since he hadn’t ever made so much as a dime of profit in the small business he was running and she was paying for. Dad was distraught because he had promised my classmate they would be married, and what was he going to do?
He stayed for the money.
Wow, I wish your mother had booted his butt.
Ugh. I wish your mother had divorced him. Different times.
My dad was pretty bad, but not nearly as bad as a lot of these stories. Thank goodness, my mom saw the light and left him. And never considered going back.
You sound like your mother protected you from the crazy! Good on your mom!
I also nominate my first husband, who had affairs with our downstairs neighbor, a local Alice in Dairyland contestant, co-workers (his, mine and ours), the church choir director (he was the organist, in more than one way, I guess), three or four sopranos and a couple of altos. He also (bad word meaning “to strike or penetrate”) my boss, his boss’s wife, the teenaged daughter of his parents’ friends who had had a traumatic brain injury and may or may not have understood what was happening to her, and a woman he rear-ended at a stoplight. Other highlights include the woman who interviewed me for a job I really wanted — he dated her the whole year we were engaged and the first year we were married, a fact which I discovered during the interview when she mistook me for his sister. He (bad word again) Sister Margaret, the nun who organized and ran the pre-marriage classes required by our priest to marry in the church. He had only the best motives there, you see — he wanted to help her make sure she had “a real vocation.” And my sister — he said he was just being nice to her because “she’s your sister.”
I’m gobsmacked. I’ll never get over him f***ing “a woman he rear-ended at a stoplight.” Does he tell people he has a magic d**k?
I think the point was to show them rather than tell them.
How on earth did this horrifying monster charm the pants off all these people (brain injury victim excepted)?
I hope you are NC with him and also your sister.
I’ve been no contact with him since 1983; and haven’t seen or talked to my sister in the 11 years since our mother’s funeral. My former father-in-law, however, wrote to me faithfully every month (snail mail) and every June apologized once again for the way his son treated me. He died at 97, still calling me his daughter-in-law. And my sister-in-law still calls me her sister.
“the teenaged daughter of his parents’ friends who had had a traumatic brain injury and may or may not have understood what was happening to her”
Rapist! 🤬
That pr*ck is one hell of a worthy contestant for this prize.
Good Lord.
My mind is blown at his attempt to know Biblically literally every female in the geographic area.
Severe nausea from the girl with a TBI; that’s just a pure power play.
I’m so glad he’s an ex.
It’s rape. If she didn’t understand, then it is rape.
Holy (bad word) !
And I apologize if this remark offends anyone — I meant it merely as a colloquialism.
Yeah, I’m not sure my FW is the “greatest” but he sure did a number on our hearts. He was a “good guy” Jesus-cheater who had a two-year affair with a close friend of mine. We lived in the same neighborhood, attended the same church, kids were friends and went to the same schools. We had a good marriage, so I thought. I enjoyed him. We laughed a lot. His betrayal was a complete shock. And for it to be with my friend… Having to process one betrayal is enough for a lifetime, but two?
After trying to reconcile for three years, I realized the marriage was no longer sustainable. He seemed obsessed with her. It was only a few months after we divorced that he wrote me an email claiming he wanted to “live an honest life” thus was informing me that he and my ex-friend were officially “dating”. My ex-friend still attends the church so of course I no longer do, thus losing the place where I raised my kids. I’ve lost almost all my friends too. It’s been truly surreal. FW still visits our neighbor’s house about once a week to hang out. We see his car out front. The neighbors – also former friends – never speak to me. My teen kids are like, What happened to Dad? No effing clue. It’s been so hard on them, on me. Thanks so much, FW.
I think you encountered a whole cluster of FWs. The church. The neighbors. People you thought were your friends. And it’s horrible that hangs out at the neighbors’ house, in full view of your kids.
There are great, normal, decent people out there with good character and values. I hope you and your kids run into a lot of them.
My cheating ex was (and is) a therapist–lmft. When confronted about the last OM, she remarked he had nothing to do with our marriage problems!
Mine had not one, but two secret families during our marriage. And those are the two I discovered. There may well be more. I don’t know how many half siblings my children have, to be honest. And what really amazes me is how little shame my ex has about it all.
TWO!!! I mean, FWs with secret families, aren’t that uncommon (sadly) but TWO!!!
😱
I could also nominate my second husband. He took me to a gay bar in Chicago to meet his “best friend from the monastery.” (Yup, he had been a practicing Benedictine monk. He left the order before taking his final vows and after discovering sex.) Father Steve, the best friend from the monastery discussed the church laws, or perhaps he was just expounding on his own interpretation of church laws, and assured me that sex between two men was not cheating — because it wasn’t actually sex. Sex is between and man and a woman only, and for the purpose of procreation. If there’s no possibility of procreation it cannot be considered sex. I thought it was an odd conversation to be having at all, but being in the gay bar made it ever so much worse. After I left the husband (because he tried to strangle me to death and very nearly succeeded), I went back to our house to get my purse, my passport, my wallet and the keys to my car (which were still in his car when he dumped my unconscious body on the highway) at a time when he was supposed to be at work. Father Steve was there doing some spiritual counseling. The naked kind. In my bed.
Okay, I think you might win! Good lord!
Well, he’s sure a contender. I’m glad you survived his attempt to make you not on the earth plane.
I would like to nominate your FW for the win. A former Benedictine monk strangling you and dumping you on the highway (he probably thought you were dead) is waaaaay beyond the pale even for a FW. I’m so sorry. Did he do prison time for attempted murder?
Father Steve is so ridiculous he should be a character in a darkly humorous graphic novel.
No prison time. The police didn’t even come when I called them.
🤬 WTF!
“If there’s no possibility of procreation it cannot be considered sex.”
So no women over 45 are actually having sex?
Also former Catholic here. Father Steve is full o’ shite. I wish you had visited his monsignor or bishop to inquire about Father Steve’s interpretation of canon. Although knowing what I know now he would probably have just been transferred to another parish to cause more harm.
Former Catholic here. Fr. Steve is making up his rules as he goes.
I’m glad you got away from both of them before your second husband killed you.
Not sure if she’s a winner, but FW is definitely on the comically evil scale.
For starters, Scmoopie is her (former) best friend’s (soon to be ex) husband. And I don’t mean she’s got a lot of friends she’s close with and it was one of those friends. These two were inseparable. Borderline codependent. Our kids were friends with their kids. They met up every weekend, usually more than once. During spring break (FW works for the school district), her and former BFF met up 6/7 days off. AND SHE WAS SLEEPING WITH HER HUSBAND THAT ENTIRE WEEK!
About a month onto the affair, she started scheduling sleepovers for the kids at former BFF’s house, where she would stay over with the kids. She had never done this before, as there were no spare beds at their place for the kids, let alone her. I of course needed to stay home “to take care of the dogs” (so naive), after all there were no beds for me anyway. Apparently what happened was that the sleeping arrangements were shuffled in such a way that FW and Schmoopie could sneak in a quickie. While the kids and her best friend were home. Yes, it was that gross.
Also during that time, I was seeing a therapist because of the gaslighting, which I was internalizing the blame for and assuming were communication issues in my end. I talked to FW about all of my sessions, and she used that to gaslight me further. Then she got Schmoopie to reach out as a confidant, so that he could gaslight me about it too.
The thing that got her caught was the last sleepover. We’d fought earlier in the week, so 6 DAYS LATER she said she was going to stay the night at BFF’s to cool off, and she was taking the kids to sleep over. What she’d failed to mention was that BFF and her kids were gone for the night, it was just Schmoopie there. That night she accidentally left her thong in Schmoopie and BFF’s bed.
Lots of other stuff too, but those are the highlights.
This is also a cautionary tale about therapists who don’t see the bigger picture. My therapist never feel for me assuming blame unless I actually did something wrong. And a caution not to talk about your therapy with anyone but the therapist.
I will say that my therapist didn’t really fall for that either. I always went in internalizing blame, and the therapist would always say my reactions were completely normal. My stated focus was to communicate better with FW, and so it would usually start with whatever “fight” (read: gaslighting and DARVO session) we’d just had, and how I could communicate my feelings better. In fact, in the session between the final sleepover and DDay, my therapist interrupted me for the first time, and effectively told me I needed to confront FW. In hindsight they’d figured out she was having an affair.
And yeah, I felt obligated to tell FW about my sessions, because the entire point of the sessions was communicating with her. Obviously a mistake in hindsight, but the entire goal I had with those sessions going in was to improve communication.
But yeah I definitely learned from sharing with AP. I’m not trusting anyone who’s not incredibly close to me with that kind of talk anymore. He presented it as being open and how he’d experienced similar things. Regardless of whether that was true or not, in hindsight he wasn’t close enough to me to talk about that stuff.
Yes, yes, “accidentally” left her thong in the bed….
Also I think for a lot of these FWs the deception is about as exciting as the orgasm. As my FW was detailing his exploits after D-Day he had shiny eyes, that’s the only way to describe it. I realized instead of being sorry while confessing (and providing waaaay too much detail) he was actually getting off on it. The illicit sex was erotic, the deception was gleeful.
And why is it always a thong? I’ve never worn one in my life. Literally.
FW also never wore thongs until about 2 years ago lol. Which was when her behavior changed drastically and I started therapy. The affair wasn’t for another year and a half, but she started doing other things that were red flags before then.
Oh, SadDad, who knows what she was up to and with whom? When the behavior changes, they’re likely to be at least emotionally cheating.
For sure. During that time was some very suspicious Snapchat activity, multiple girls’ nights that lasted until 5 in the morning, and an obvious crush on a coworker. That was why I started therapy; I was getting uneasy and she framed that as me being paranoid. She’d cheated once years ago, and she would do things like that around that time. I assumed I was seeing patterns where they didn’t exist. Turns out I was right to some extent.
I don’t have any evidence of anything before the affair, but I definitely have suspicions, and ultimately it doesn’t matter anyway.
It was definitely accidental, they’re just that sloppy. FW and Schmoopie had no plans of running off together, they loved the status quo. After DDay FW was hoping I’d stay, invited me to pick-me-dance, and was livid when she found out I’d filed for divorce. Not because she stopped seeing Schmoopie (she didn’t), but because I’m the breadwinner and she just left her full time job a few months ago (after the affair had started) to work part time and spend more time with the kids. So she likely realized she’s about to be making ways less, even with alimony and child support.
You’re absolutely right about the deception though. FW is seemingly addicted to lying now. She lies about the most mundane of things, and keeps concocting hare brained schemes either parents. And just like during the affair, whenever she gets caught in a lie, she DARVOs and tries to blame me for figuring out she was lying, rather than the lie itself.
I made the fatal mistake of doing the pick me dance. After I caught her with 4 different guys, she whipped out a pack of rubbers and told me they were to help one of them with his premature ejaculation problem, and that she had to show him how to find her clit. Then she tells me (about a different guy), “Sometimes he’d fall asleep inside me and wake up and f*ck me again.” This shit is just the tip of the iceberg, but I don’t wan’t anyong reading this to retch.
Ugh. Disgusting.
Disgusting memory for you, but a strong contender in this contest. Congrats?!?!?
My FW isn’t that interesting. He managed to use most of the cheater’s handbook to cover up lying to me so he could blow up our relationship without cheating.
Long story short: I was a Catholic woman dating a Catholic man. I had seen a few guys use “the priesthood” to get their girlfriends to pick me dance by being in a committed relationship with the girlfriend while telling her that someday he’d break up with her to become a priest.
I was vocal that I don’t play that game. I have no beef with future priests – but I’m not going to waste years on a relationship with a guy with one foot out the door.
I’d been dating a guy for 6 months. We’d had a rough summer because he had lost a job and I thought he was depressed. In the fall, though, he had been a lot more fun, thoughtful and romantic; I was really enjoying our relationship.
After Mass one night, I’m sick from an immune reaction to a DTAP shot needed from an injury. Fever, sweating, chills and muscle aches – I’m a mess. I say goodbye to my boyfriend and am surprised to her a friend ask him if Boyfriend’s trip to D.C. starts tomorrow or Tuesday. I’m so confused; BF has been with me daily for weeks and I’ve never heard of this trip. I’m really sick, though, and decided to figure this out later.
I go home, take Motrin and Benadryl and go to sleep. I wake up still sick at 2am. I call in sick and set up sub plans. Facebook Messenger flags that there’s a message from my BF. In an obnoxiously pious FB message, BF informs me that he’s been planning to become a priest for “awhile” now and is currently on his way to a discernment retreat in DC for the next 10 days. That he didn’t tell me before because he didn’t want to break up with me. (Apparently, “I preferred having access to your apartment and body until the last possible moment” didn’t sound priestly enough) God and Jesus were invoked a lot.
I threw up.
I also realized that I was going to be fine because wow, did I dodge a bullet with a guy who lied so easily and for such low stakes for himself.
Turns out he told no one he was planning to break up with me. I had the ugly experience of telling so many people we had broken up because he was becoming a priest but lied about it to me. The ugly bit was most people said “Wait – we thought you knew about that and we’re ok with it.” No, I didn’t know – and wasn’t ok.
Managed to stick me with the awkwardness of publicizing the breakup because he was out of town. Not cool.
I did one thing I haven’t regretted. I went to a priest I knew from the order running the retreat and shared the whole story – including his breakup message which was date and time stamped and included his detailed confession of lying to me while doing vocational awareness with a different local priest. The priest I met with apologized for the hurt I suffered, told me none of BF’s actions were acceptable and asked if he could share the information with his order
I told him to share away. If BF wants to drag the Church in, then the Church should get all the sordid details.
Oddly enough, he tried to contact me when his poorly thought out plan imploded. I told him I didn’t want to talk and would reach out when I did. That was at least 16 years ago – and I’m fine being out of contact.
I spent a year fixing my picker then went online to date. About three months in, I met a funny, sweet, hardworking man. We’ve been married 14 years and are raising a great son.
Turns out I was right. I am fine.
Catholic abuse has its own weirdness to it. I will try to describe this in a way that makes sense but I might fail.
I was protestant when we married. He was lukewarm faith-wise but oddly got very insistent that we marry Catholic. He had been future-faking me (no action, lots of mixed signals) that we had plans in the reasonable future then delaying. I finally told him to shit or get off the pot and not in a needy way, rather a strong, self-advocating way but as we were living in different time zones because if his military service, I told him we needed to marry or break up.
He went through with the wedding but acted like an ass from the get-go and even told me to my face the best part of being married was having someone to blame everything on.
I lived on hopium, commitment and a rare moment of pleasantness in the marriage and trudged through. Along the way I became Catholic and we all know that converts are on fire for the faith.
In the midst of his abuse when he was planning to leave me for a coworker, he said that he was so reluctant when we married, he saw it as not giving genuine consent to the sacrament of marriage. He lived like a single dude who had been forced to marry against his will. I wanted the graces that would be received by a genuine sacramental marriage so I asked him to have a convalidation to seal our marriage.
He told me (shortly after Dday) that “if we lived” for the 5 years to our 25th anniversary, then he would do the convalidation, but not before. To me the options were: 1) divorce and annulment (which could take YEARS) or 2) fix the marriage and making sure the marriage was sacramental.
I waited the 5 years he insisted on then shortly before our 25th anniversary, he had his best friend tell me that he had no intention of having our marriage blessed. He wanted to force my hand to get a divorce an annulment. This was all very spiritually abusive. He knew if he had our marriage blessed, the chances of later annulment would be slim and he wanted a “get out of jail free” card. His insistence about not really consenting to being married was something he clung to.
About a year went by and on our 26th anniversary, he acted awful and I finally admitted to myself that it was all a lost cause. I had held our family together with string, tape and spit and I could no longer do it. I remember trudging up the stairs at work and praying…”Dear God, I release him …if there is a place where he can be happy, I will not stand in his way to go”. I thought that he would shortly move to California but about a week or so later, he died unexpectedly.
My chump friends generally see the timing of his death as a gift to me but I think that he was barely on the side of living in God’s grace (long story) headed to a dark place where his soul would be in jeopardy. I think that God took him while his soul had a fleeting glimmer of redemption. I believe he went to purgatory.
When he first died, I had a moment of forgiving him for what he had done to me, but I heard a little whisper to my soul “slow down, this aint over yet” and more and more details that I didnt know before he died started to surface. I trust God to deal with him with the perfect balance of accountability and mercy. If he goes to Heaven, I hope his dwelling is not near mine.
Good for you for going to the priest! I hope the order decided this excuse for a human was unfit for the priesthood.
My FW may win in the subcategory “Most Changed Personality” as he flipped out after discovery and became someone I had never seen before (knew him for 40 years), not even during the EA 30 years earlier. Talk about the “Mindfrick Blender”. I started out that year not knowing what was truth vs lie, and ended up not knowing what was real vs my own delusions (if any because I still don’t know).
Aside: “a FW who stole his children’s piggy bank money to take his mistress to Disney World. The very same destination those kids had been saving up to go to.” So I’ll hazard a guess that this FW “dad” has spent the last several years explaining to all and sundry that his ex-wife turned his kids against him. Sounds familiar.
Then there was my third husband — and clearly my picker is wildly inappropriate.
I cannot prove — but strongly suspect — that he was cheating from the get go. I don’t need to prove it. The stuff I can prove is bad enough. He was a (diagnosed) Narcissist, and the mask began to drop as soon as we were married, five years into our relationship. But this was my third husband, I was in love, and I vowed to make this marriage work “if it killed me.” What is it about men killing inconvenient wives? Things went OK — not great, but OK — and he insisted that we were happily married right up until I sustained a back injury at work. It was so bad I couldn’t walk — the nerves that controlled my right leg were compromised and I sort of had to hobble along, dragging that right leg. He told me it was my fault, “for being out of shape.” I had just walked a half-marathon and was training for another. After the back surgery, I was able to go back to work and to walking long distances. A couple of years later, I needed a knee replacement, and the pre-op work-up included a mammogram (because it was time) which showed a lumps in both breasts. The left breast lump was malignant; the right was benign but large and growing fast. So I had surgery, removing both lumps and reducing my breast size from a FF cup to a D or C. He was upset about the loss of breast tissue — not because it threatened by life, but because now my boobs were “normal size” instead of gargantuan. A year later, I had the knee replacement. Through all of this, he was present in that he took me to all of my lab appointments, scans, appointments with surgeons and physicians, follow-up appointments and anything that could be done at Man’s Best Hospital because we both worked there, and he was looking very shiny as a husband and getting lots of “moral support” from teammates, physicians, and everyone we knew at the hospital. He was all about the shiny public image. When it was just us, he was distant and contemptuous.
About the time I came back to work after the breast cancer, the security guards were making the rounds with a security video they had copied from the helipad cameras. It showed a man and a woman doing the deed on the helipad on the roof. Taken in the dark, it was grainy and not all that clear, but you could see who the man was especially if you knew him as well as I did. As nursing supervisor, my husband had keys to the roof. The security guards all knew him, and knew he was married to “an ICU nurse who has cancer.” Evidently they didn’t know which ICU, or they thought I was still on medical leave . . .
There was also the time he was caught naked in the back of an ambulance with a female co-worker his daughter’s age. They said they “had to change clothes because the patient barfed all over them.” And then there was the time he carried a naked woman into the ER with some sort of vaginal injury. He said an SUV had pulled up in the ambulance bay, shoved her out and took off before he could get a plate number. The woman didn’t dispute his story. I actually heard this story from him. There were incidents in the call room with his boss, which may help to explain how he stayed employed. I wasn’t paying as much attention as I could have — the incidents started when I hurt my back and continued while I was fighting cancer, and then rehabbing after knee replacements. Even when we were both home at the same time, he was distant and dismissive, and blamed me for “all those surgeries,” and “making a lot of extra work for me,” and “not doing anything at all for me.” Meanwhile, I was dancing as fast as I could to do everything possible to make his life easier. Silly me.
When his sister told me about his “girlfriend,” I didn’t want to believe it. She grabbed his phone out of his hand and showed me the very graphic and inappropriate texts he had been exchanging with this woman. Like most cheaters, he trickle-truthed me, claiming it had only been going on for “a couple of months,” and that he “hadn’t seen her in 40 years.” (His sister made a point of driving by her house when we went to the nail salon together, and there was MY car parked in the HS girlfriend’s driveway.). When I looked over the cellphone bills going back to before my back injury, I could see 300-600 texts and a few dozen phone calls every month to the same number. It was his high school girlfriend. It had been going on for years.
He also slept with my sister — the same sister who slept with my first husband and all my high school boyfriends (according to my father, who should know, because he was sleeping with my classmates.)
🤯 I know Tracy said no celebrity stories but Sharon Stone divorced her husband when he was upset she was having a msectomy for cancer. I believe he didn’t want her to have it. You know, so he could enjoy b**bs while she was alive, I guess.
PS Your cluster of FWs — spouse, sister and father — are in contention for the worst.
Ruby, three contenders is quite something! Sounds like your FOO, with cheaty sister and dad, set you up to have deceitfulness and home life all mixed up. You write with such clarity now. How did you fix your picker?
Good grief! Not only was your ex a megacreep, but your sister and your father as well. How terrible for you. ☹️
I know this is not extreme, but I think my FW won some kind of prize if our daughter and AP (nearly same age) show up to dinner with him dressed nearly identically (those Genz uniforms) and former family friends routinely mistake our daughter’s friends for the AP.
The FW Crown in my world is a tie between Chris Watts and Scott Peterson, two stone cold losers who unalived their wives and children in pursuit of the greener grass of their affair partners.
Both were also beloved by their in laws prior to their crimes.
I haven’t read through the nominations yet. Sadly, those two jumped into my mind immediately.
♥️
Your comment sent me looking and I found an interview with the former AP.
“There were several discussions that we had about his current relationship and where it had gone,” she said, according to People. “It was never anything aggressive. It was still very kind. He was just like, ‘This is not working.'”
Kessinger went on to say that Watts’ behavior throughout their relationship “wasn’t anything out of the ordinary or anything that would scare me. She added, “Even to this day, even after everything that I’ve found out, I still look back at that, and I don’t see any red lights about the way he spoke about his family.”
THE RED LIGHT, hostile, aggressive thing was that he was effing you, girl, while speaking so calmly about his family.
I think it’s pretty telling that a competition for most FW-iest FW takes us into CSA and homicide territory. Cheating is abuse.
Hi Magnolia!
AMEN! There is a video of her interview with detectives on YouTube. It’s 3.5 hours long. I’ve listened to it. She is (unsurprisingly) a wing nut, as evidenced by her willingness to be an affair partner.
The lead detective retired because of PTSD he developed handling that case.
Amber Frey, on the other hand, was lied to by Scott Peterson and immediately signed up to help the police when she found out. What’s sad about that case is that at that time, they did not see his cheating as a motive for m*rder.
We know now that affairs are a motive for
h*micide and s**cide all too often…..
“THE RED LIGHT, hostile, aggressive thing was that he was effing you, girl, while speaking so calmly about his family.”
BINGO! And his should-have-been red light was that Kessinger was willing to eff a married man. Crazy and disturbed found crazy and disturbed.
Whooof. Chris Watts was an absolute monster. I would call him stone cold but even stones warm in the sun. That man is liquid nitrogen.
Walker Railey should also be a contender. He was acquitted of attempting to m*rder his wife, but her parents filed a civil lawsuit against him and won a judgment. This happened back in the 80s and 90s, so you probably didn’t think of him.
Also, although he didn’t k*ll his wife, he injured her to the point where she was incapacitated for the rest of her life. She was in a nursing home until she died. There was never any other suspect in the attack on her.
If anyone is interested in more details, there’s a Wikipedia entry about him. Get this…he actually remarried!!!
Yes, and the one recently who killed his wife and a stranger interested in some kink with help from the young au pair AP. He (and the au pair) set it up so he would look like a hero who tried to save his wife from an intruder.
So so many.
i have a friend whose husband divorced her and left her without any money while she was recovering from surgery for a brain tumor. He even had her sign papers while she was still groggy and she had no money for an attorney to fight back. Not sure if there was any cheating in that case but a huge amount of glass-bowl-ery.
Newt Gingrich tells his wife he’s divorcing her while she’s in the hospital with cancer. John Edward’s steps out on his dying wife while running for President.
WT actual F?
Male chumps, I know (though increasingly only with my logical brain), that it’s not all men, but the Tates and Epstein and all his friends and Trump, Graham Plattner and Eric Swalwell …. Everywhere you look. What is going on with so many men?
If there’s somebody out there who’s worse than the FW who stole his kids’ money to take his side piece to Disney World…Idk, I may lose what little faith I still have in the human race.
If you’re doing subcategories, I may be able to nominate my FW (ex, thankfully). In the serial cheater category…He was never creative or artistic, however he was able to lead a secret, sordid double life continually, with countless betrayal objects for 40 years. Countless betrayal objects scattered across N. America. Some he saw only a few times a year. Others 2 or 3x/month. Some married, some not. Some with kids, some not. Some straight, some bi. Variety of skin and hair colors, though they all were heavy drinkers/some alcoholics, many or most w/criminal records and STIs/ STDs (often resulting in surgery, cancer, infertility). And none of them small gals. Maybe a prize for variety, numbers, longevity of cheating? Oh, and yes, porn user from start to finish. Nothing special about him, but he was certainly dedicated to his cheating and persevered until he was caught, in his 70s. I bet he would love at least a participation medal.
It’s so hard to choose the biggest a-hole moment but I’ll throw my hat in the ring.
When I confronted my ex of 25 years about some odd spending behaviour he said this:
Well I’ve been getting my needs met from S workers, going to S clubs for many years. But I decided I was tired of that and it would just be easier to have a permanent girlfriend. So I found someone (at our work) who would be willing to meet my needs (for various k!nks). She and I are now together, but I’ll be home 3 or 4 days a week to do things like help with (our child), mow the lawn and do the taxes. Then I’ll spend the rest of my time with her.
The rest is history in that I kicked him out and ensured years of litigation abuse and no child support. His best move recently was to send our daughter a text message wishing her a happy 21st birthday. That would be okay except she’s only turning 20.
Crazy ! Mine also decided for me that we would stay married but he would date publicly because “cheating” wasn’t fun anymore.After decades of cheating, he needed to take this affair partner out into the light or she would leave him. She got every awful piece of him in bright light – I left.
I love that he unilaterally decided that was how you were going to live!!! Completely delulu.
So google won’t let us use the full version of FWs eh? Aight I have some suggestions:
1) For the church-going, bible users who go pray on Sunday and schtup on Monday- “Pious Porkies” (nod to the 1982 film.)
2) For the cheaters who have decided, in their 50’s and older, that their True Soul Mate goes to their 20-something adult child’s college and “they’re so mature for their age you just don’t get it!”- “Lecherous LOLtharios.” (Because their insistence that they’re somehow very desirable to young college students is hilarious.)
3) For the online 5-star rankers of sex workers found everywhere from Craigslist to Crete, the ones who have had every STD known to medicine, and probably a few unknown, the ones who think “No really, the strippers actually LIKE me!”- “Syphilitic Search Engines.”
4) The ones who think they have risen to a higher level of human sexual evolution. They all but physically ate an Esther Perel book. They look down their nose at you and your stuffy expectations of monogamy (in the exclusive relationship they agreed to publicly and legally) and will likely be seen on a Netflix documentary about a yoga sex cult in the woods in the near future- “Exuberant Extracurriculars.”
And lastly
5) They’ve been cheating since day 1. This person has never been loyal to anyone in their life. Not their spouse, their friends, their employers, nobody. They don’t just cheat on you, they cheat on the people they’re cheating with while they’re cheating on you. Their deceit extends to other areas of life including business dealings, financial responsibilities, and family obligations. You say the word “loyalty” to them and they look at you like you just landed from a UFO and asked to see their leader.- “Get the f*ck away from this mess.”
Re #2, well, their bank accounts are attractive to those students!!
I love this. And thank you, you’ve created the next Friday Challenge which is to write new euphemisms!
I thought of one more…
6) They see the workplace as their personal matchmaking platform. Nobody is off the breakroom table. Bosses, subordinates, new hires, old hands. They use LinkedIn as a dating app and they’re never home on time. Those “expense reports” need cover sheets, don’t they?- “Office Orifices.”
Don’t forget about the college interns!
Mine is a combination of 2 and 6. “Lecherous LOLrifices”?
What I would like to mention is that in such workplaces, not everybody deserves to be shamed and ridiculed. In all likelihood, there will be a lot of “collateral damage”, such as women who will be demoted or otherwise punished for rejecting the FW (or because he isn’t attracted to them in the first place), people who get bullied by schmoopie because they are doing good work and schmoopie is therefore jealous etc. Sometimes those people will just cut their losses and leave quietly because speaking up would come with a lot of repercussions. During my (former) career in the media and in public relations, I’ve seen this happen over and over again, sadly.
Edit: In some cases, the FW/workplace cr*p himself may make it look as if everybody in his office is a “willing orifice”, but that may not be the truth.
Ok but I’m talking about the cheater/perpetrator…not people dealing with the fallout in their vicinity. It could be said that there’s collateral damage with every category. I’m labeling categories of the person doing the cheating/deceiving, not the people who are impacted by their behavior. That would be a whole other topic unto itself.
My D-Day occurred in May, 2023, when my ex-FW went on a business trip. I looked up his phone and banking records while he was gone. He had 639 texts, and 78 phone calls with escorts over the period of that weekend. I found out later, that he hired seggs workers to come to his hotel room. I moved out by the time he got back home from that trip. As that summer unfolded, I told him I wanted a divorce, and he proceeded to spend $46,000 over a 4 month period of time, hiring seggs workers and having them service him in our house, in our bed, as he partied. He bragged about all of his conquests at work. In August, 2023, he moved his mom (with Alzheimer’s) into our house. He left her alone 2 days later, going out with his “young girlfriends,” (he’s 64). He totaled his car, and ended up in jail with his 4th DUI (now a felony). Nobody had a key to our house, and his mom with Alzheimer’s was stuck in it, after spending the whole night there alone. My daughter and I had to get the realtor to give us the code to the lockbox, to get his mom out of the house (the house was up for sale). FW then came home in the morning, reeking of alcohol, after bailing himself out of jail. He was acting crazy, and threatening suicide in front of his mom and my daughter. My daughter had to call 911, and FW finally agreed to go to detox. Once he was taken care of, I went over the the house, and took my mother-in-law to her home, where she was at least familiar with her surroundings. I had to grocery shop for her, because there was no food in her house. Afterwards, I went back to the house and cleaned it because a showing was scheduled the next day; plus I had to get our dog that he could no longer care for. While cleaning, I found liquor, condoms, a bikini, marijuana, and offensive sexual T-shirts. My FW’s brother had to fly in from out of state to rescue his mom. My brother-in-law took his mom back to his state, and their mom died 4 months later. That was as crazy as it got. Now I’m divorced, and the FW is married to a subordinate co-worker, who is 20 years younger than him. She has 4 adult children with 3 baby daddies; the youngest kid lives with them, because of mental disability. The new wife has health problems. It’s been crazy, but I’m out!!
Hello Siri, give me an example of a loser. No contact, always. Be free!!
Wow. You were a hero to your daughter, your MIL, and the dog. It’s a wonder he’s still alive. He was circling the drain.
I think this FW is a strong contender. First of all, that many calls and texts over ONE WEEKEND? Deserting his mom with Alzheimer’s, 4 DUIs, suicide threats, and in front of your MIL and daughter (!), AND detox. SMDH.
My FW had done a lot of similar things as yours but not to that brazen degree as he’s a covert narc. Your crazy ex is a walking Netflix special in the worst way.
This is a definite contender. It is pure evil to leave your disabled mother like that. Wow.
My cheater was having full seggs « massages » for at least 5 years at Asian Massage Parlors. During this time while I had no idea what was going on, he wanted to renew our vows. I fortunately told him no, our original wedding vows had not expired but were good till cancelled by death or divorce.
Wow, what a concept! A “best before date” in fine print in the vows? An adulting subscription non-renewal period? There is some “subject to”, with reference to the cheater playbook?
STBX narcwit isn’t a contender for the grand prize, as I never even found solid proof of a physical affair – just circumstantial evidence. Though he definitely had an emotional (possibly physical) affair toward the end and was definitely gaslighting me to he//. But if there were a “Monkey Brancher” subcategory, he might be a contender. He’s dragged the divorce out for 3 1/2 years, we’re a week or two from signing, and his wedding is eight weeks from tomorrow. After we sign, a judge still needs to sign off, so it looks like narcwit will be screeching up to the curb at the vineyard waving the divorce papers to get the ink to dry before he says “I do.”
Jackass is a garden variety narcissistic cheater. His special sauce is grandiosity. He’s genuinely intelligent but covers that over with that special sauce so his intelligence becomes irrelevant. And if others have a garden-variety narcissistic cheater, we can be grateful we know that and still got away from them.
I could write a book listing all the reasons why ExFW would be a contender, and I was going to, but it took away from my meh.
But there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that the absolute worst FW of all time in recent history is without a shadow of a doubt Dominique Pelicot ( The Monster of Mazan). Followed by a close second, Josef Fritzl (The Monster of Vienna), which was nearly tied with third place, John Wayne Gacy (The Killer Clown). Honorable mention: Ryan Borgwardt (The Missing Kayaker).
There are too many FWs in the world but I think if the criteria is for the worst of the worst the ones who blew up their lives so epically they recieved international media attention for the crimes they committed while married to an unsuspecting spouse and traumatizing their kids and grandkids in the process should be considered.
Mine cheated on me with the domestic abuse survivor I was housing to help her escape her abuser.
Little late to this posting party, but wanted to add my FW’s actions. He and his AP used to have s*x in her car. He then purchased this same car from her then-husband, and THEN then gifted the vehicle to our son for his college graduation gift. My son drove that car for 2 years and I could never tell him.