Should I Confront My Ex-Wife About Her History of Cheating?
He’s been a “nice guy” but now that they’re divorced, he wants to confront is ex-wife about her serial cheating. But he’s going to wait until after she throws him a birthday party.
***
Dear Chump Lady,
My wife and I were married for 22 years. She had two known affairs and two suspected ones. The first one was 10 years in and it lasted about 18 months.
She eventually cut it off and even had the police issue the guy a cease-and-desist order to prevent him from contacting her. I thought that was a good sign and I thought we were going to be on the path of recovery.
That was in 2013. Fast forward to 2019… my wife seemed unhappy and decided to go back and finish school. She also went to work to pay for tuition. While working, she met a coworker that was 13 years younger than her and fell in love.
I suspected the affair, but I couldn’t prove it.
It went on for 4 years until she finally confessed it to me. But even then, it was just an admission and not an apology, but she said it was over and I wanted to believe her.
Things may have been over physically and emotionally between them, but she refused to sever ties with him. They were friends before the affair, so she felt like they should be able to be friends afterwards as well. That didn’t sit well with me, but I wasn’t ready to break apart the family over it. (We have 5 kids)
Even after the affair ended though, things were distant. She was unhappy. We didn’t have any intimacy and we were really just roommates. We didn’t fight. Or argue. We just co-existed. We did care about each other’s well-being though and we worked well as a team, but that didn’t help us become close.
My wife took my daughter and her mom on a cruise for my daughter’s graduation. She met a Royal Caribbean waiter that she thought was handsome and charming. I guess they talked a lot and spent a lot of time together. My daughter thought this was messed up, but not wanting to create drama, she didn’t come home and tell me about it.
They messaged and stuff without my knowledge.
I didn’t even know about this guy until my wife’s niece who heard about him from my daughter told me. I confronted my wife about him and she just said they were pen pals (via text). But then she went on another cruise with a female co-worker and it just so happened that it was the same cruise ship that this guy worked on and they met up again.
When she got home I asked her if she saw him and she said yes, but that nothing happened and they were never alone together.
Meanwhile, she had graduated from school and got a job as an elementary school teacher. She taught a couple years and then near the end of the school year two years ago, she “took a few days off.” It turns out, she didn’t take time off. She was put on administrative leave while the District launched an investigation into her conduct with the janitor, who is 15 years younger and still lives with his parents.
Some other teachers complained about their relationship. They didn’t find anything in the investigation, but they still gave her a directive not to not be in the same room as him without someone else present.
She told me that everything was blown out of proportion.
That nothing ever happened, and the teachers that complained just don’t like her. It didn’t feel right, but any time I probed or questioned, I was made to feel like a jerk and like I was the bad guy for not believing her.
Things were still distant between us and over the course of the next year, that distance continued to grow. She wouldn’t answer my calls or texts. She wouldn’t let me know when she was leaving work. It just all seemed sketchy. So, I put a gps tracker on her car. Turns out, she was going to the janitor’s house. She ended up finding the tracker and got all mad and said she couldn’t live under a microscope anymore and two days later, she filed for divorce.
I am a chump — the typical “nice guy”.
And I am incredibly loyal and believe that commitments and marriage covenants should be honored. I had decided long ago that come hell or high water, I would figure out how to make my marriage work. We cared about each other’s well-being. We showed up for the kids, but deep communication and any sort of physical intimacy had stopped. I knew my wife wanted out for a while, and I saw my marriage slipping through my fingers.
So, in typical nice guy fashion, I stepped up my game.
I did more around the house, I was more involved with the kids. And I bought her gifts and constantly provided acts of service. All my efforts were received, but without any thanks. She didn’t want any of that. She had admitted that she had turned her feelings off and gave me the “I love you but I am not in love with you” line.
For a while, she even said that she could see us just being roommates forever, that all changed with the GPS tracker discovery.
I know that finding the tracker and using that as a reason for divorce was just an excuse and she had really left the marriage years prior, but here is what is crazy:
We were still friends.
We could go out with other couples and enjoy ourselves and even our time out. When it came to the kids, we were able to work well together. I kept looking at the situation and thinking we had so many things going for us, but she just wasn’t willing to try.
The other crazy thing is that as soon as papers were filed, things actually got better. We talked more, we started watching shows together and a lot of the coldness in the house dissipated. I think it was really just my wife seeing a light at the end of the tunnel, but we still took the family on a fun Spring Break.
We had tearful conversations and cuddled in bed for the first time in years as we just held each other knowing it was all coming to an end. We talked about how after the divorce, we could still be friends and go on vacations together with the kids and still go on double dates with our friend groups. The outlook didn’t seem all that bad.
The divorce was amicable.
No fights. No arguments. Both attorneys said they never saw anything like it. We were kind and cooperative. Even after the divorce was finalized, we slept in the same bed for nearly a month until she had a place ready to move into.
That is when things got super heavy for me. Three days after she moved out, we were still new to the custody stuff and the kids moving back and forth. I took my son over to her house around 10pm to grab his shoes he left. She was all off standish and irritated that I brought him over. She had answered the door in sexy pajamas and was acting weird.
I left with my son and as I was driving away, I saw a familiar truck around the corner…the janitor’s.
We hadn’t been divorced for a full month.
We had only been living apart for 3 days, and she was already banging this dude. I was a wreck. At this point, I knew that their relationship was much more than what she had said. I also knew that I was successful in nearly all aspects of my life and I worked dang hard to try and make my marriage work, but I was replaced by an elementary school custodian that still lives with his parents. He was only six years old when my wife and I got married.
That night, my self-esteem hit rock bottom. I’d be lying if I said I didn’t have (un-aliving) thoughts for the next few days. It was rough, to say the least.
It’s hard not to want to drive by her house to see if she has him back over there.
I know I shouldn’t care, but it is really hard not to obsess over the betrayal and honestly, there is a significant amount of jealousy that I feel. She gets to feel loved and be intimate while I don’t have any prospects. It is really aggravating.
Since the divorce, my oldest daughter, the one who was on the cruise, asked me if I knew about the guy my wife met on the cruise (again, this was a few years ago) and I told her I knew of him but I didn’t elaborate or speculate as to the nature of that relationship. Well, she told me that only a few days ago, a package was returned to our house that was addressed to the guy on the cruise.
I guess my wife had sent him a Christmas present that must have had the wrong address and it was returned to my home. My daughter told my ex-wife that it showed up at the house and my ex-wife told her not to tell me about it. So, over the last few years, she has maintained a relationship with this cruise guy while cultivating a relationship with the janitor.
So, I’ve got a million reasons to be pissed at her. I want to hate her, but I just don’t. I think hating her would be easier than what I am currently feeling. And what is really nuts is that my birthday is coming up and she is organizing a birthday party for me. After that, I need to really start no contact other than kid coordination, but I do have the overwhelming desire to talk to her and let her know that I know about the janitor and the cruise guy.
I want to tell her how bad she hurt me and that she treated me like crap.
I know she would get defensive, mad, and probably lash out at me, but I really want her to feel like a crappy person. It won’t help, but I still want to have that discussion. My kids also want to talk to her. They let me know that they knew about some of her infidelity, and they feel like they need to get all that out in the open and that burden off their chest.
I don’t know if I should schedule a family therapy session or what. They don’t feel comfortable addressing her directly about all this, but they opened up to me and let me know that they have a significant amount of resentment towards her because of her actions. What should I do about that? Would it be helpful for them to talk to her? They want me present to help create a safe environment.
Everything just seems so complicated at the moment and honestly, I don’t know what to do or how to move forward. Any help you could provide would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Nice Guy
***
Dear Nice Guy,
I’ve never wanted to bitchslap the chumpiness off someone so bad in all my years as Chump Lady. Prepare to be knocked into orbit.
We need to have a total deprogramming session to unf*ck your mind. Let’s begin with:
She’s not — and has never been — your friend.
You’ve been of use. That’s it. People who love you don’t goad you into humiliating contests with other men and lie to you about it. They don’t blame you for your abuse. Her serial cheating isn’t a minor character flaw — fraudulence is her entire operating system.
Throwing you a birthday party (DEAR GOD MAN! Do you feel me reaching across the interwebz to shake you?) is IMPRESSION MANAGEMENT for HER benefit. To demonstrate to the world that what she did wasn’t so bad that you won’t sit down and eat cake with her.
Eat cake!
So fitting! She’s been a cake eater your entire marriage. Enjoying the benefits of married status and a buffet of dick on the side. That’s either okay with you, or it’s not okay. Because you’re writing to me, I assume it’s NOT okay with you. But you stuffed all that down because why? Niceness?
You’re not a ‘nice guy’ — you’re an avoidant guy.
High off the fumes of the Reconciliation Industrial Complex you’re framing all your doormat behavior as conciliatory and “nice.” Yum, yum sh*t sandwiches. Thank you, I’ll have another. Time after time, you have rewarded her entitled behavior and cloaked it in nobility. Hey, you’re nice.
I absolutely understand the vice grip of investment. The years together, the five children. Not wanting to lose your family. Everyone here understands those forces. And yet. You did not consent to be cheated on. It’s not okay with you. And you did not stand up for yourself and assert that you MATTER.
She eventually cut it off and even had the police issue the guy a cease-and-desist order to prevent him from contacting her. I thought that was a good sign and I thought we were going to be on the path of recovery.
This is some RIC bullshit right here. The Other Man wasn’t the problem. He’s not the menace to contain. Your wife was the traitor. The problem was her crappy character the entire time.
Sure, you can send a cease and desist letter, and as you discovered (repeatedly), she’ll just find a new sucker because THE PROBLEM IS HER CRAPPY CHARACTER.
She was unhappy.
You were unhappy. But who did you f*ck on a cruise?
You could never control her lack of investment.
This was never your problem to solve. And yet — again I’ll blame the RIC for stoking your hopium — you tried to “up your game.” Meet further abuse with nice!
I did more around the house, I was more involved with the kids. And I bought her gifts and constantly provided acts of service. All my efforts were received, but without any thanks.
She cheated. What was she doing to up HER game? Why did you think this was YOUR problem to solve? She didn’t thank you because you’re a spousal appliance. Your service is assumed. Absolutely be involved with your kids, but do that for THEM, not because you think it will control your wife’s wandering genitalia. Besides someone has to stay home while she’s out cruising for janitors.
We could go out with other couples and enjoy ourselves and even our time out. When it came to the kids, we were able to work well together. I kept looking at the situation and thinking we had so many things going for us, but she just wasn’t willing to try
Why were you willing to try?
What made you think this awful person was a prize? Besides your investment and your five kids. The way she treats you like crap? The way she unfolds her napkin when you’re out with others? WTF, Dude?
Even after the divorce was finalized, we slept in the same bed for nearly a month until she had a place ready to move into.
That’s me reading that sentence.
She cheats, she lies, she BLAMES YOU FOR THE DIVORCE — and the consequence is… you fluff her pillows.
Look, man, I’m a chump. I’m here among a nation of chumps, but you can’t keep hurting yourself this way.
You. Are. Divorced.
We had only been living apart for 3 days, and she was already banging this dude.
What did you think you were going to accomplish with cuddles? “She was already” banging this guy? SHE’S BEEN WITH HIM FOR YEARS at this point. And now! You’re DIVORCED! She’s totally permitted to conduct her life in any f*cked up manner she chooses to. And you’re permitted to steer clear of her toxic orbit and yet you can’t seem to stop pick me dancing for the honor of her duplicity.
I’m sorry you lost the pick me dance.
Losing the pick me dance is winning, but you can’t see that. I’m actually not sorry you lost it, I’m sorry you want to win it. Even now. Even after her umpteenth affair and quadrillionth lie.
So, I’ve got a million reasons to be pissed at her. I want to hate her, but I just don’t. I think hating her would be easier than what I am currently feeling.
I want you to NOTHING her. Strive for indifference. She deserves ZERO of you. What you’re feeling is the dawning awareness that you’ve been a chump. It’s lucidity and it hurts. It’s also liberating. Eventually.
Stop calling her your ‘wife.’
Don’t call her at all.
She’s your past. Your regretful long, mortifying mistake.
And what is really nuts is that my birthday is coming up and she is organizing a birthday party for me.
That is really nuts. You have agency here. You can communicate directly that you do NOT want her to throw a birthday party and you will not be attending. Because she’s not welcome in your life.
SHE DOESN’T CARE HOW YOU FEEL.
I want to tell her how bad she hurt me and that she treated me like crap.
Absolutely terrible idea. She doesn’t care. It’s obvious from her ACTIONS. Why would you stick your head in that blender? Why don’t you take all that energy and go do something improving instead, like clean your sock drawer or write postcards reminding people to vote? Anything — dipping cattle for lice — would be better than discussing your hurt feelings with your serial cheating ex-wife.
Confronting your ex-wife and expecting contrition would be like me confronting a water buffalo and expecting pirouettes. She doesn’t bend that way. It’s not in her interest to admit that she’s a soulless piece of sh*t. But she’ll enjoy the hit of centrality. So, please deny her that.
I was replaced by an elementary school custodian that still lives with his parents.
That’s her karma, Dude. Let her live it. Stay out of the way. She needs a janitor to sweep up all her chaos.
I don’t know if I should schedule a family therapy session or what. They don’t feel comfortable addressing her directly about all this, but they opened up to me and let me know that they have a significant amount of resentment towards her because of her actions.
Your children’s relationship with their mother is THEIR business. Not yours.
Everything just seems so complicated at the moment and honestly, I don’t know what to do or how to move forward.
Nothing about this is complicated. It’s just hard. You don’t want to quit the hopium. You know you must. So, you wrote to me.
Bitch slap delivered.
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There’s several dozen chumps who are about to write about the impact of all of this on the children.
The letter writer is in such denial that my hope is he rebuilds his own sense of self.
Low contact (parenting app only), gainful employment, individual therapy, exercise, part-time parenting to allow for individual pursuits. All of this will be necessary just to keep his household afloat.
The “Nice Guy” letter is missing a lot of missing information and reads less like a chump who wants to move on and more like a potential domestic violence situation and that should be a wake up call to the letter writer…. Tracking device on car is illegal, the ExWife filing divorce immediately after and the divorce being extraordinarily amicable is sus, admitting to ongoing stalking by driving past her house. Just wow.
Many who suspect their spouse is cheating consider installing a GPS tracker to get evidence. Does not make them a bad person nor a criminal in the making at all. And no, I didn’t do it myself but I wish I had been savvy enough to – to figure out he was cheating in the first place. I was raised to stick my head in the sand and not ask questions 😭
I don’t know what that means — “the divorce being amicable is sus.” LOADS of chumps give in to amicable divorces; it’s called hopium. I also don’t see him admitting to driving past her house (stalking??) anywhere in this post.
Let’s not shoot our wounded.
Where does he say he has been watching her house? He said it has been hard *not to* drive by her house, which to me means he wants to, but has been restraining himself.
As for the tracker, this was a serial cheater who was ordered by her employer to stay away from the janitor. He wasn’t tracking her for sh*ts and grins, it was because she was lying to him about an investigation into her conduct. Lots of chumps have used tracking or recording devices to get the truth. It may be illegal in his jurisdiction and it may be quasi-legal as HOAC says. Even if it is illegal in all circumstances, that doesn’t make this a domestic violence situation.
It’s a legal gray area in some places. Depending on region, there are circumstantial legal loopholes for using tracking devices in adultery cases or cases of significant financial abuse. But I’ve heard that the narrow loophole can close if a partner demonstrates a pattern of stalking, violence or coercive control. In any event, I know that licensed, legitimate PIs in my state regularly use tracking devices, check in with police on stakeouts and the evidence is admissible in court as long as the complainant remains completely in legal bounds.
A lot of chumps resort to surveillance. I’m not saying it’s healthy. In fact, I argue at the moment you consider acting like a Soviet spy, it’s time to realize your relationship is over. You don’t trust this person. As for the “amiable” divorce — it’s’ the scenario many chumps fall for. You’ll always made your needs small before, why should the divorce be different? And then we pronounce peace. Yes, stalking the former affair partner is creepy and wrong.
He’s also not in his right mind. I did some strange -very strange stuff- once involving me going to his new apartment after calling and calling- and my son came and pulled me off the sidewalk. He was not there, and this was the thing that shorty thereafter led to him confessing one of (later found out) many affairs. This event, looking back, was pure brain damage. Just 100 percent gaslit. Like letter writer, I had lost my sense of reality. No contact is the start. Mind you, he was in the apartment after I kicked him out for severe emotional abuse (and now I know that the humiliating “sex’ was rape), but, you know, I deserved it and he was just”telling the truth”. He also got me to help him make his apartment nice for the one kid not in college- he made no room for his other son..The point is. I am not sureties guy is actually a a stalker in so much as he’s in Stockholm syndrome. He’s a victim of severe emotional abuse. In fact, Coercive Control, which she has over him, can now be prosecuted. There’s a great documentary about the first time it was used, this was in England, as a way to get a woman out of prison after 10 years for killing her husband. It’s harrowing story, but coercive control is real. And he’s a victim of it.
Agree. Traumatized people do weird stuff. It doesn’t make them potential abusers.
Sally Challen. It’s a harrowing story. Her son David became a massive advocate for criminal enforcement against coercive control in the UK.
But what a win for abuse victims. Her son was a hero. And again to point out the damage being with these people does- at the end she says “I still miss him.” Wild. But not. The brain damage is so severe. You just are so brain washed. I feel so much for this man.
I think the criminalization of coercive control may be among the biggest game changers in human history (if and when these laws are ever actually enforced consistently). I subscribe to David Challen’s Substack and the Substacks of pretty much every advocate for criminalization.
Oh thanks for this. I will check it out. That guy was a hero to his mother. And to all of us.
Yes, time to move on. In my opinion, family therapy without her is very much needed. That might help him explore why he can’t let go of this. His hopium is indeed thick. It can also help with understanding how to deal with the kids’ resentments, which are completely expected here. They need to process this themselves. He wants some admissions and closure, and that’s so very unlikely. So, don’t expect it, IMHO.
Certainly, with kids involved, he should be reasonable and civil, but vacations together aren’t what’s called for. And birthday parties need to end. He needs to bring things to a normal, civil close with his ex where their lives are intersecting way less.
When we were discussing the divorce, I told my ex that my hope is that we could marginally keep in touch because of the college kids. I figured both being at graduations and weddings with some civility was a possibility.
NOPE! He made the divorce a wild mess, and our offspring went no contact with me during the divorce. I explained why I was doing that (my attorney was insistent), and a few days later, they said they were going to do that too. My attorney and I had to consider a protective order when my ex’s mental health took a dangerous nosedive, but we decided to hold off because my ex was in another state. I did get a domestic voilence rating from a professional in case we needed that. We were close to settlement and got that shortly therafter. I agreed to email-only during closeout and kept it polite and business like with no personal details. The kids never did engage with him again.
It’s been years now, and he’s out of our lives. Completly expected given how the proceedings went and his long-term struggle with addiction and mental health issues. In retrospect, I was naive with the expectation that we could stay in touch. So I’ve been alone at all of the now-grown kids’ events. And that’s fine.
I think it would be tough, but a good idea, for him to go to therapy with his children so they can be open about their feelings to him in that setting. I’m sure right now his older kids probably have things to tell him about this they’re afraid to say. They don’t need to confront ex wife, that would go nowhere and we all know it. But maybe they have thoughts about how he’s been taking this they want to share.
I know if my dad had been cheated on over and over and kept trying to beg for attention from the cheater, I’d have a lot to say to him. Not necessarily bad things, but I would be wondering why.
I can get on board with family therapy but I think he needs to do solo therapy first. His thinking is still coming out of the mindf*** blender.
Sadly the OP is modeling a lack of self respect for his children (BTDT myself) and if it continues with the faux happy family vacations and chump groveling, it will set up the kids to accept abusive behaviors from future partners. It’d be all they know.
My kids were older and had more insight than I did at times, but the three of us did therapy together and separately. I learned to validate their thoughts about Dad without telling them what to do. He didn’t even invite them to visit until he was gone some years, and they were both over 18 by then. I told them they could visit if they wanted. I would drive them to the airport. Nope. They refused.
I also joined a twelve-step group (my ex was an addict) and saw a life transitions coach. In my late 50’s, I had no idea how to figure out where I was going next with my life. When my ex retired, I had a singular set of plans with him that were no longer valid.
We’re all good. My young adults know all about setting boundaries with people and how to stand up for themselves. And I’m way better at that now too.
Nice Guy,
The term “nice guy” has evolved from a straightforward compliment to a negative label describing men who are passive, manipulative, entitled, or performative in their kindness as a strategic way to secure romantic or sexual favors…
Justifying the placement of a tracking device on her car is a level of marriage police that I can’t wrap my head around.
The “nice guy” persona can escalate into stalking and domestic abuse when rejection triggers a violent response to their unspoken entitlement. Viewing kindness as a covert contract for sex or affection, these men often perceive a “no” as a betrayal that justifies aggression. This leads to a dangerous “Jekyll and Hyde” dynamic, where a charming public mask hides obsessive, controlling, or lethal behavior in private, fueled by the belief that they are owed compliance for their “goodness.”
Nice Guy: Don’t be that kind of “Nice Guy.” You are divorced! Be free! Spend your birthday doing something that has nothing to do with her that you always wanted to do; start putting in the time, effort, and energy into making you the best version of yourself. Work on being the sane parent; your kids will thank you in the long run.
It’s easy to fall into the trap of seeing a singular symptom as a disease. It seems that you’re reading “tracking device” as “abusive stalker” when in reality, it can be the desperate act of someone whose reality has been shattered by continuous gaslighting. I most certainly would have placed a tracking device on my first FW’s car had such gadgets been available at the time. I was quite skilled at humiliating myself with a very high level of marriage policing, some of which could have been considered stalking. This is the kind of behavior that chumps often agonize over, questioning if they’re actually the abusers and compounding their own trauma. I don’t see anything in Nice Guy’s letter to suggest that his motive was to dominate or control, but rather the familiar cry of someone who naively believed that if he could somehow know the truth, then there was a chance he could fix the problem. BTDT.
Dude, from one chump guy to another, you have to let that love you feel/felt for her die. I know it’s easier said than done, but she has used you, treated you less than human, took advantage of your willingness to save the marriage, and has zero remorse for it. She doesn’t love you man, people who love you wouldn’t treat you like that.
The thing that saved me is no contact. Don’t do couples therapy, it will hurt more than it heals anything, I know from first hand experience from someone who used and did the very same tactics.
Don’t go to a birthday party she is throwing for you, don’t be her friend, you are addicted to the love you feel for her and have to stop that stuff cold turkey as best you can.
I know it hurts like hell, I know the desire to scream from a rooftop telling her and the world what she’s done, I know the draw towards the person you devoted your life/character/integrity to and it all sucks.
The people I’ve talked to who have screamed it from the rooftops or confronted their cheaters have regretted it, some very painfully.
The other thing that helped me is to think what kind of role model do I want to be to my kid. Do I want to show them they should take any and all abuse thrown at them? Or as chumplady says in her book, do you want to show them that you are a bad ass that respects yourself to stand up and step out of the abuse. What would you tell your kid if their spouse was doing the same thing? It’s painful, but was helpful to me.
I’m so sorry you had to go through this and admire you for sharing your pain. Please listen to chumpladys advice. You’re worth more than that series cheater is treating you like. put that devotion, love, integrity towards your daughter and yourself.
Good luck breaking free
“and two days later, she filed for divorce. “
The best day of your life, if you just use it. She is gone, she had to file; because no matter how crappy she treated you, you wouldn’t. (been there).
She didn’t start up with janitor boy right after your D, she was with janitor boy all the while you two were cuddling in bed, being (friends).
Oh yes, she was definitely sl*eping with the janitor the whole time! And the janitor is a textbook example of “they never trade up.”
She likes them young and subordinate.
Nice Guy,
You need to accept that your Ex-Wife is your Ex-Wife for a reason and the manner that you act towards her (and the manner that you let her act towards you) should reflect it.
And do please remember that the only thing that a Chump ever achieved from confronting a Cheater about their cheating was a face full of lies.
LFTT
Worse, I fear she’ll yell and shame and blame shift! It’s just an invite for more abuse. No contact and a one on one therapist that can help him see he has been emotionally abused, gaslit, used etc… It took me forever. And I was no contact, but my brain was such mush from such lengthy extensive brainwashing.
NHOC,
You are not wrong. The OP needs to ask himself “How does this interaction with my FW benefit me, and do the costs and risks of it outweigh the benefits?” There is no point in a confrontation for its own sake and, as you say, it just gives the FW an opportunity to escalate …. and I’ve not yet met a FW who could resist an opportunity to escalate.
No contact, therapist and understanding the extent to which he has been abused is what the OP needs.
LFTT
I’ll hate her for you, dude, but you really need to hate her yourself. She’s used you for decades and she’s using you still. She was cooperative during the divorce so you wouldn’t push for a more favorable settlement for yourself. She’s cooperative now because “friendship” makes life easier for her and easier for her to excuse her behavior to herself and not have to excuse it to others.
She’s also effed up and incredibly stupid. She doesn’t realize that a whole lot of cruise ship staff see passengers and entertainers as an ever-changing p*ssy buffet, and that her pursuit of men younger than she is as a pathetic attempt to deny aging or try to live her younger years as another self. Try re-framing your feelings of worthlessness around those facts, and maybe it’ll help you learn to trust that she sucks.
I’ve never been on a cruise myself, but I guess this could even qualify as s*xual harassment (on her part in this case). Maybe she went on that second cruise where he was on staff without his consent? This could also explain the returned package, btw. Of course, it’s also possible that this was all consensual (and maybe he was in it for money).
“While working, she met a coworker that was 13 years younger than her and fell in love.”
This is the issue in a single sentence. She missed many emotional maturation milestones. She lives in an entitled, fantasy based state of mind. That makes her immature and selfish to the core. She might have empathy but it’s cognizant and only employed when it suits her. She “falls in love” over and over because it makes her feel alive. The dopamine hit is worth more than the pain her betrayal will cause. We, the normally wired, assign positive attributes to them and then ignore and defend all of their words and actions that show us the truth. It’s painful to have your eyes peeled open but the truth will eventually break the trauma bond.
What is it with coworkers 13 years younger? Sounds like one of my exes too. After three years of push and pull from him, he calls me and says he’s soooooo depressed because his schmoopie (that I was finding out about on that phone call) was moving away and he was soooo sad he’d never see her again.
She was 13 years younger than him and had a boyfriend of 4 years. And he expected me to feel sorry for him. He was mad when I didn’t.
Is there something about being 13 years younger that just grabs their attention?
Reminds me of Madame Bovary. Peasant girl marries the plain but hard working doctor. She chases shallow delights and ends up dying with putrid black liquid pouring out of her mouth.
My ex was in his 60’s during the divorce, and my attorney began calling him “the boy” instead of using his name. Why, I asked.
“Because that’s what he is. Grown men don’t act like this, they own up and show up.”
Wow. That was validating.
Oh. My. Gosh. Dude, this is crazy.
Do you know why she’s throwing you a party? Because it makes HER look good. Just imagine how many compliments she’ll get for that. She eats that stuff up. Because all she cares about is herself. She does not care about you. She does not care about her children. She does not care about the cruise ship waiter or the janitor. She’s with the janitor because of what SHE gets out of the “relationship.” Maybe he’s really good in bed. Maybe he tells her how fabulous she is. Maybe he’s really easy to control. Whatever it is, it’s not about you and it’s not about him. It’s ALL about her. All of it.
How do I know? Because I was married to the male version of this POS for 25 years. He doesn’t care about our children, so our children have returned the favor and don’t care about or see him any more. My ex remarried shortly after the divorce (not the one he cheated with during the marriage), but he’s not faithful to her, either.
Every time you pay her any attention whatsoever, you’re telling her that it doesn’t matter that she cheated. Just STOP IT.
Maybe if you cut off contact you’ll get enough space to see that she has been abusing you AND YOUR CHILDREN. Telling your children to keep the secret of her affair is ABUSIVE. The abuse came with lots of smiles and maybe a wink and a nod, but it’s still ABUSE.
This letter makes me so mad. She cheats on you and instead of getting mad, you start fawning? In her eyes cheating is THE BEST THING EVER! Double winning! One man at home to do all of the adulting and a boy on the side for admiration and lots of sex! Yay!
Eeeeewwwww. She’s disgusting.
Yes, she is abusing the children as well. Making them work for her. The hiding the affair thing is so messed up. This scenario is so bad, and so was mine in a different way, but sometimes you can find one thing to cling onto to KNOW – this one thing is bad!- and then, with time, all the other things that are bad- which will be and is here a lot of things, or even everything!- will come to be seen. I’m so glad he’s here. This place saved my MIND.
No confrontation. No birthday party. No cuddling. No text messages.
No contact.
Get a parenting app for that.
This person is not your friend. Friendship is based on trust and respect. You do not trust her and she does not respect you. Both, as we say in the business, have been ruptured irreperably.
Minus the kids part? I’ve been there.
This idiot is going to continue to use, abuse, and hurt you as long as you let her.
She is not “coming back.” Even if she was? She is going to do it again. I am counting…six? Is it six times she betrayed you from your narrative? Seventh time is the charm? You (very fortunately) lost her a long time ago. She has played you and will continue to play her as long as you permit it (I became viscerally angry reading the phrase “roommates forever” there. She showed her hand.)
It sounds like you got the same flowery language I did about still being friends forever, just not lovers. That is performative on her part. Mine told me that I’d have a key to her new place and we’d still do a lot of our old things together. As soon as I asked for the key to her new place once she got settled, she acted startled and “…you can’t!” Her irritation at you stopping by for a pair of shoes? That’s the real her and her real attitude toward you. If a five-minute inconvenience was going to trigger all that? Yeah no. You have met the real her now. “Actions, not words.”
The real her is very performative and about impression management. She is keeping you on the hook-she wants the “married” perks without putting in the work. There will be guilt and manipulation a plenty-this “birthday party” is not actually for you-it’s a strategy. Cancel it.
Getting cheated on was not your fault. Despite what she may have told you about how it was your fault, if she was unhappy she could have gotten divorced earlier and not trumped the whole thing up to getting AirTagged. Her decision to cheat was more about her lack of character and impulse control and less about whatever your perceived deficits were. She put you into a competition that you were never going to win rather that actually work on or end things. And I am sorry she did that to you. I know the burn too well.
She betrayed you. You owe her nothing. There is no existential debt between you because this was your fault, because a) she betrayed you, and b) you are divorced now. Your finalized divorce, child support notwithstanding, marked the end of any obligation you had to her. I was a “nice guy” too-loving her harder and working her harder didn’t keep her from cheating; it sure as hell isn’t going to fix anything on the back end.
Put that effort into yourself. Believe me, it rules!
If you need any further evidence that you need to NOT make her your moral compass (I did the same thing-got the therapy bills to prove it), I made an internet friendly list!
-18 month affair 10 years in resulting in a restraining order.
-Affair with a younger co-worker that lasted for four years.
-Two suspected other affairs
-Legit got disciplinary action for an affair with the school janitor. Which means “they got caught doing something on school grounds”. (And remember kids, “suspended with pay” and “unfounded” still go into your HR files!)
-Did something with a staff member on a cruise that you were not invited to; you were still married to her and boundaries were inappropriate.
-Clearly kept things going with the janitor despite receiving disciplinary action that could reduce her ability to provide for your children.
And brother? That’s just the stuff you know about.
Yes, she’s still “with” the janitor(I remember the dark night of the soul I had when I had to tell myself that Schmoopie wasn’t Schmoopie anymore-HE was the boyfriend and I was “the ex’. Not a fun night.) Her love life is no longer your problem(and if the janitor marries her? I’m excited for him to join the Chump Nation!) She is going to make a lot more thoughtless decisions. Apparently getting suspended for three days and jeopardizing her career was not enough to dissuade her from moving forward with that.
I’m coming up on three years from being in a very similar position. The decision to go No Contact has been a life saver. No New Contact=No New Hurt. And your mind will clear. And you are going to get perspective the more you insulate yourself from her BS. You are going to feel pretty dumb and beat yourself up. You are going to have bad days. This is part of the healing process. It will pass. You will come to realize how bad things were when the rose-colored glasses finally break. And you will come to accept that you while may not “deserve better”-but you sure as hell did not deserve that.
You fell in love with an idiot and a liar and a traitor. You are in good company-we all did, too. I repeat-that does not say anything bad about you-as my therapist likes to remind me, “you were in love with the idiot.” Love makes us dumb. It’s a wonderful thing, but yeah…it glosses right over a lot of completely awful behavior.
Like I said, put the effort that you put into her into you.
Happy Tuesday to Those that Celebrate!
I really, really hope that Nice Guy listens to you and our leader Chump Lady. And refuses to attend the birthday party!
Your ex-wife leaves messes everywhere she goes and you need to stop cleaning them up. She has a janitor for that.
I fear you have been downtrodden for so many years that you have no dignity left. Please stop directing all that energy towards her behavior and redirect it to yourself. You need to be able to model sane parenting/adulthood to your kids. If you don’t, they’ve seen two models over the years: doormat and the person who scrapes their shoe crud on a doormat. Neither role is going to provide your kids with a route to a happy life. Your kids need therapy too, but probably without you until you are in a healthier place.
Good luck. You matter. Your kids matter. You deserve a life with dignity and reciprocal kindness and I am rooting for you to have it.
“She has a janitor for that…”
Hat’s off PrincipledLife! Love that quip!
Good cop, bad cop.
You have rightly slapped around by other commenters. Why? Because you have been living in denial for decades. You are resisting reality because of fear. But it can get better.
I was in your spot. Went back to school, became a elementary teacher and f*cked the janitor. I didn’t know about it and she denied it when she told me she wanted a divorce. She really wanted to stay friends. Pick me dancing was my reaction. When I found she was cheating things got tougher for her as she had to deal with the consequences. I still was trying to save the marriage. She agreed to counseling and it just revealed her toxic character and I was out. Chumplady was not a thing then, but I slowly went no contact. This allowed the reality of her betrayal stick. I started to imagine a different future without her. I remarried four years post D-Day and it has been a huge blessing over 22 years. You have a lot of life ahead of you, including being a role model for your kids.
Let go of the past and grab your future!
Well, gives a whole new meaning to “chaos janitor.”
Friend, she has been screwing that guy for a minimum of two years (ew — in his parents’ house!??!).
Also this line — “We did care about each other’s well-being though and we worked well as a team” — is utterly, utterly false. She demonstrably didn’t care about your well-being at all, except to the extent it supported her selfishness.
Nice Guy…my dude, bro, my guy…
It is over. She is not your wife, she is not your partner, she is not your friend. The only thing she loves is herself. The only thing she loves about you is how much sh*t you take from her. I guarantee you she’s told her APs (all the ones you know about and the ones you don’t) about how much of a doormat you are. She definitely had more than one laugh with these guys about how many times she’s pulled one on you and you’ve responded by kissing her butt even more. She’s throwing this birthday party because she wants everyone to know that she can f**k around on you for years and you will STILL show up at her feet. Don’t be surprised if cruise boy or janitor are there.
Don’t go to couples therapy with her. You are not a couple anymore.
Don’t go to family therapy with her and drag your kids into this confrontation. She will manipulate them too. Don’t think she’s above that. She already did. She told your daughter not to tell you about cruise guy. She will absolutely manipulate them in the therapist’s office.
Don’t go to this party. Tell her cancel it, and stop trying to make this marriage come back from the dead. You need your own individual therapist. And if any family therapy happens it’s with you and your kids. Not her.
Your kids are not dumb. They know. They know mom is a cheater. They know she sleeps around, they know about cruise boy and janitor and probably whoever else. Do you want them to see you as a doormat or a person who respects himself? What do you want them to learn about relationships? Do you want them to learn that it’s ok to cheat over and over again? That it’s normal for the chump to keep being deceived and beg for more?
Show them this is wrong. Stop idolizing her. Stop playing friends. Get some parenting schedule software, grey rock her, and show your kids you have a spine. Teach them how to be mighty by being mighty yourself.
Ugh, a very good point. Do you still want to go to this party if she brings the janitor as her date? Because she will. She is fully capable of that.
I’m just gobsmacked by the…opportunism of her serial cheating. Girl doesn’t miss a trick (so to speak). Co worker, cruise waiter, janitor at her workplace…are you sure she doesn’t have a thing going on with the mailman and the cashier at the grocery store? I try not to judge (too much) but that’s quite a record.
The butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker…..
I definitely judge her. She is a user and a pervert who lusts for much younger guys. The janitor is a subordinate at work as well. Gross.
Nice Guy –
First off, get to a therapist immediately. You state that at one point you were thinking of slooicide. How much more serious does your situation have to get before you call for help? Please call a therapist today. Now. It takes time to find one with available appointments. And even if you no longer have those thoughts it is obvious you still need a truckload of self examination. You can also get family therapy with your kids because obviously they need it too (they have a “significant amount of resentment” towards their mother and don’t feel comfortable talking to her.)
Second, let me make an analogy here: Fast forward ten years from now. Your eldest daughter, one of the five beats of your heart, shows up at a holiday dinner with her husband Hamfist. She is upset, but trying to maintain her composure for the sake of the family, and especially does not want to upset her husband. You notice she is missing some teeth and has a black eye. “Darling daughter,” you say, “It is obvious to everyone here that you are not doing well at all. Go home with Hamfist and be nicer.” WUT?!? But if that scene is okay with you, and that solution to your daughter’s life is working out for her, then we have no problem here. But as CL said, if that kind of strategy was working for you then you would not be writing to her. Something (everything) needs to change and you already know that.
PS – Just to clarify, “no contact” is not a punishment for the FW, although I guess that most frame it that way. No contact is for your own safety and sanity. Protect yourself!
Oh dear. Letting go is hard. It feels to chumps like the FW was won, and that’s why we all hold on so hard, some longer than others. What we don’t want to see is that we lost the minute the chose to cheat. Tracy’s reccomendation to find an occupation other than fret over her and who’s in her life/bed, is a good one. That will definitely help.
As for the kids – he didn’t say their ages, but sounds like the oldest daughter could use the guidance of “seek out a therapist for you and your siblings to talk to her if you feel the need, but I cannot be involved”. He can explain that he is going no contact and that if they still want to address this with her, the therapy idea is the best so they have a space that they feel safe to speak their minds. And he also needs to explaing that their relationship with her is their own and they get to decide what that looks like. If he can model no contact well for them, they also may adopt that with her, if they do not like the person that she is. People need to learn that you don’t have to have your parents in your life. Simple as that.
One of my daughters and I had a tenuous relationship. I was not the best mom (nor the worst) and she has mental health issues. It finally got to a point where I could not take what she was delving out to me (and as a first rate chump, I can take A LOT) and she was screaming at me, telling me how much I hurt her all the time, etc. and I just calmly told her, “If i cause you so much pain, don’t have me in your life. Remove me from your life. I love you very much and just want you to be happy and if I interfere with that, then cut me out. I will not hold that against you, ever. You choose who gets to be in your life for your own well being, and that includes me. You owe me nothing.”
She was shocked. She was speechless, which is rare for her, as she always has an opinion and something. But ever since then, things have been better between us.
Good luck to the OP. Hope he goes no contact and starts living his own life and forgets about his Loser FW EX!
The party and the couples dating and the staying friends is all image management on her part, and she knows she needs it. Her teacher colleagues disliked her for a reason, which may not even be the janitor. “near the end of the school year two years ago, she “took a few days off.” It turns out, she didn’t take time off. She was put on administrative leave while the District launched an investigation into her conduct”
She’s using you and your amicable relationship to counter questions about her values, morals, and all-around worthiness. She wants people to think the stories are not true, she can’t be so bad since you are standing by her. She wants people to think that you still care about her, so she must be wonderful. We could go out with other couples and enjoy ourselves and even our time out.
Something that would be hard to do if she was honest that her significant other was a school janitor who still lived at home. Or a 13-years younger coworker. Or a cruise ship waiter. Or any of the possibly many other men that she’s been chasing.
I think it’s significant that her APs are either younger or a significantly lower social status or both.
Allowing her to throw the party is tacit agreement that you are OK with her as a person. She’s a lying cheater. Knowing that, would you choose her now as a friend?
Time to make your own life. She’s the past. Leave her there.
Nice Guy, your situation illustrates why chumps have to go no contact with their narcissistic cheaters. My ex- husband completed his divorce of his second wife six months before I met him. My ex- husband told me she cheated on him but he never cheated on her. I married my ex- husband in 2017. Fast- forward some years later and my ex- husband’s brother sends me a text telling me that my ex-husband ( current husband at that time)was fooling around with his second wife. I didn’t believe my brother- in- law. My ex- husband and I subsequently retired out to mexico in 2022 and I discover my ex-husband cheating with a friend of a friend in 2023 and I leave him in 2024. In retrospect I realized and found some proof my ex- husband kept in touch with second wife throughout our marriage. When I left him and filed for divorce, he came back to our home country and lived for a time with his second wife. I feel terrible for her as I feel he is using her and keeps stringing her along. After our settlement was signed off, my ex- husband reached out to me asking about reconciliation again so I think he was trying to start stringing me along as well. I am guessing my ex- husband keeps tabs on all his ex’s( ex-wives, ex-girlfriends, ex-mistresses) in case he has need of them down the line. He also kept repeatedly trying to contact me throughout our settlement negotiations to get a better deal for himself but I stayed no contact and as a result got a fair settlement. There is no such thing as an amicable divorce with a cheater.
Nice guy, you don’t want to end up like my ex- husband’s second wife. You never move on and keep being fixated on someone who is no good for you nor anyone else. Go no contact and get some therapy.
Nice guy, you don’t want to end up like my ex- husband’s second wife. You never move on and keep being fixated on someone who is no good for you nor anyone else. Go no contact and get some therapy.
Hopium does weird things to people. What I’m seeing here is a Chump saying to himself, “As soon as she is out on her own, she will be sorry and miss me! She will be sitting alone at night missing me! I’m sure we will be back together soon!” And then he realizes he is taking care of the kids while she has romantic nights with the janitor. As a chump, it is hard to fathom that FWs have no regrets. They really don’t. They don’t care if they hurt you. They don’t care if they hurt the kids. They don’t care if they violate work policy. They. Do. Not. Care. I applaud the advice to not confront her. I can tell our chump friend exactly how that will go: “We are divorced, and it’s not your business!” And if things escalate, he may end up with a restraining order. The emotions are inevitable, as we feel the hopium wearing off and realize they never cared at all. But talk to a therapist, a pet, or even a tree. Any of those are better options for processing grief than someone who has repeatedly demonstrated that they do not care.
This is exactly what I was going to say. Nice Guy wants to tell her how he feels about being cheated on and thinks she’ll actually listen. She won’t. She won’t be sorry. She won’t see the error of her ways. She won’t feel bad. She won’t take responsibility. Everything he wants from confronting her will never ever happen. Oh sure, she could feign some of these things, but it’s won’t be real. She doesn’t care. She doesn’t care about him or their children or what she did to them. She cares about herself. Full. Stop.
No way, Nice Guy. Do not let her throw you a party. Your ex is a disgusting creep and you should not be friendly with her. Civil for the sake of the kids is one thing, but friends? No. Tell her the party will just be for you and the kids and that you are no longer friends. If she has the gall to ask why, tell her to figure it the f**k out for herself. Do not lay your emotions bare to this awful woman. She won’t care and that will just hurt even more. If she cared about your feelings, she wouldn’t have done any of that. Good grief, what a vile FW. In addition to betraying you, she exposed her children to her depravity. Be a nice guy to people who deserve it. She doesn’t. Don’t be fooled into believing she cares because she seemed sad when you were breaking up. No doubt there was some self pity that cake was ending, but mostly she was just manipulating you into not going nuclear on her the way she deserved. It worked, didn’t it. Now is not the time to release the nukes though, it is the time to go NC. Not after the party. Right now.
I know it’s hard. But please don’t humiliate yourself by expecting her to care about your pain. You’ll regret it. I’m so sorry she did this to you and takes advantage of young guys at work. I hate her. The one thing I would do is inform the school that she is continuing to have sex with the janitor, which she is clearly not supposed to be doing. That will do you (and perhaps him, ultimately) a lot more good than talking to her about her cheating.
As for the kids, they need to talk to her in front of a therapist. You could help them to arrange it, but do not be involved yourself. They will not be any safer from her BS in front of you, because she lies and manipulates you and you are vulnerable right now. However, a therapist would be an unbiased third party she couldn’t manipulate, at least if you find a good therapist. Good luck.
I’d be extremely careful that whatever family therapist selected – is he/sheycheater a apologist moron or worse?
I fear the kids would not benefit from counseling with her, because they’ve already said they can’t talk to her plainly. She’s manipulative. They need therapy on their own.
I like the idea of telling the school about the janitor. I have a little concern if he can’t be anonymous for it because his ex is absolutely crazy. As far as a good counselor, I have heard so few marriage counselors be good. They believe they are being paid to hear both sides. But I haven’t tried in over 10 years so maybe it’s gotten better. I called mine the abuse enhancement person. Here’s hoping that being here and the fact that he came here in the first place is the beginning of a path to freedom.
What a painful read. The amount of abuse piled on is crushing and it is no wonder the writer is coping by living in fantasies of care, goodness, levelling of scales and redemption. Looking at the ugliness of reality would be excruciatingly unbearable even through a tiny peephole. But there is no way toward a better life other than through it. I feel empathy for the writer in how difficult the bridge to seeing things clearly will be (I’ve been there). And yet, it’s time to unplug from the Matrix. The woman you love does not exist. All you have is an arrested development entitled petulant who preys on people who are proximate, lower status and younger (ask me how I know). I commend you for reaching out to CN, your healing will need other people around who actually care about your well-being. The work you need to do will be hard and you will need people in your corner. I would also suggest your local 12 step program for codependency, as they offer a community and recovery strategies for denial, low self-esteem, compliance, control and avoidance. You can do this, please start with no contact. Your sanity depends on it.
Cheaty McLiarface had planned a huge surprise party for my 60th. I was deep in the throws of functional depression after ten years of being gaslit and all of the other delightful psychological tortures that the average cake eater comes by easily. I figured it out and called it off. Was he emotionally curious? Of course not! He was furious that I had ruined his opportunity to show our friends and family what he was a great husband he is. Manipulation is a core personality trait.
One of few times when a chump can leverage the known playbook of the narc cheater, is knowing Impression Management opportunities are catnip to them. I allowed such a charade of a party because it distracted FW long enough that we crossed the finish line for a long marriage.
ExH FW was basking in the glorious performance! OP cheater ex wife’s about to do the same except he has nothing to gain.
What are you modeling to your kids? Do you want them to marry someone who treats them as your EX has treated you?
You need to send the message to your kids, your friends, your EX and YOURSELF that what she has done is not OK via going No Contact. You are divorced. Your EX is no longer director of your social life. No birthday party. No more joint outings with friends or with the children. Organize your own party and do not invite her. No contact!
It sounds like you will miss your wife’s social secretary skills. You will have to figure out what to do about your common friends. It’s part of the divorce process.
Your EX is not your friend. She does not care about your pain. Do not show her your pain and give her the opportunity to revel in it.
No Contact is magical. Go No Contact as much as possible given that you have kids.
It is the key to healing and moving on.
Sorry, I called her your wife by mistake once. I meant EX. You are lucky that you have the divorce part done!
Ouch! 5 kids with serial cheating predator, I’d be buying DNA test kits quite frankly because there’s a high chance that not all of them are his.
Really painful to read this abused man’s letter the she-FW is a master manipulator. I hope OP takes Tracy’s advice to heart.
There is so much chumpiness in this letter it almost feels made up. It’s hard to fathom from the outside looking in. If true, I hope Nice Guy gets support to extracate himself from this woman.
IMO, he needs to relocate geographically far away to get out of her orbit.
This isn’t a marriage. This is a MIRAGE.
There is such a thing as loyalty to a fault.
You are “incredibly loyal and and believe that commitments and marriage covenants should be honored“.
She isn’t and doesn’t. Hold out for someone who shares your values and belief system. She is not the same species as you.
I have a brilliant therapist who said, “a relationship between a liar and a straight shooter will never work.” You cannot change a liar into a straight shooter. I have no desire to do so. Her behavior is the biggest STOP sign, the biggest red flag made by the Red Flag Factory Inc, not a green light to proceed. 😢
This isn’t friendship either.
She did not care about your feelings, was not there for the children, and you were not working well together. That is impossible with a partner who is a liar, cheater, thief. Those are things you are telling yourself.
If the house is on fire, you will die if you sit in the living room denying that the house is on fire. YOUR HOUSE IS ON FIRE. THE FIRE WAS SET BY A WOMAN PRETENDING TO BE YOUR WIFE.
There WAS fighting going on. That is what affairs are; beating the sh*t out of someone clandestinely. Knifing you in the back behind your back IS fighting.
I’m glad you wrote to Tracy and found this place. Please come back and read daily…it’s the best place in the world to get a new pair of glasses, break the denial, correct your thinking, and start seeing things clearly, and therefore heal and feel better and get yourself and your life back.
You didn’t cause her to lie and cheat and steal your reality and your informed consent. You can’t cure it. You can’t control it. And I will never ever advocate trying.
We can’t get time back. Don’t squander any more on someone who hurts you. 😢
♥️
The more a Chump FAWNS, DANCES, CRIES, BEGS, YELLS,SCREAMS, TRACKS WITH GPS,BENDS OVER TO EVERY DEMAND..the more a cheater will use, disrespect, and abuse you. I’m remembering an Indian nation that took captives and tortured them by taking pieces of skin off every day. If you screamed, they thought you were a coward and kept in up. Spit in their faces..now you are respected you MIGHT LIVE. My advice to this KING OF CHUMPS is, don’t let them peel you to death. GET OUT NOW.
I mean STOP IT IMMEDIATELY AND GET A LIFE
I recommend talking with your lawyer about your ex having a man sleep over with your kid(s) in the house. My custody agreement specifically stated no overnight romantic visitors while the children are present.
Nice Guy, you need to get into individual therapy with someone familiar with psychological abuse in marriage. Your ex-wife is not only a serial cheater, but she’s had affairs with at least two people she works with and one affair when she was traveling with her mother and daughter. (This I cannot imagine.) You write, “We cared about each other’s well-being.” But there’s no evidence that she cares about you, about her kids, about her mother, about her job, about the people she works with, the kids she teachers, or about these various younger guys she’s busy banging. I mean, she could have gotten the janitor fired. He’s risking his job, too, but she’s the professional and the older person and should know better.
What are you saying to your kids by letting her through a birthday party for you, when they know she’s a cheater and a liar? You’re telling them that what she’s done to you and your family is really not all that bad.
Get some mental clarity. Stop thinking that wedding vows are the ultimate on the morality scale. Lying, gaslighting, cheating and using other people (you, for sure) point to a person with poor character and morals. And the way you value being “nice” in the face of abuse and your ex’s character disorder suggests that you need to rethink your values in a way that will help you be a better parent. I caught my mother cheating and let me tell you, it screws up a kid’s head to see your mom cheat on dad with no remorse.
I am not a psychologist, and it is impossible for me to understand all the nuances of the behavior of people like this “nice guy.”
On the one hand, I sympathize with him, but in a somehow impersonal way, from a universal abstract point of view, because it is impossible to truly sympathize with a person who has so morally degraded and turned into an absolutely useless thing, a zero, FOR ALL: for his former “wife”, even for children, for others. Apparently he has no one else who could he rely on. And he never will.
Unlike CL, I don’t hope that he will suddenly wake up and try to do something that will earn him respect for the first time in his life. Because the morals of adults cannot be changed unless they experience a true shock, but this is not the case, and the “nice guy” is hopeless. I am very, very sorry to write about this.
But I feel even more sorry for his children. They are well aware of who their father is (to say nothing of their “mother”), and whether they want to or not, they will to some extent emulate his behavior, his misery in their own relationships with their partners. They have learned that their father is not only easily replaced by janitors and stewards, but that he sees his own worth as a husband in encouraging such treatment and even boasting about his own insignificance.
Remarque wrote that pity is the most useless thing in the world, the other side of schadenfreude. This unfortunate man is looking for pity, he wants to be pitied even by his bitter mortal enemy, his ex-wife, whom he still longs to win back. But in responce he gets schadenfreude, hidden behind ostentatious participation and sympathy. Because his behavior is so tragic and destructive that it becomes ridiculous.
Personally, I see this story as yet another confirmation of the tired truth that we teach others how to treat us. And confirmation of another tired truth that we are responsible for all what happens to us, not our partners/sposes, family members, or the rest of the world. And the confirmation that our pride, our dignity, and our self-esteem are our true assets, without which we cease to be human beings and become household items for everyone around us.
And another thing: if we want to make others happy, including our children, we must first be happy ourselves. But we must not confuse happiness with a subjective understanding of duty.
History doesn’t know the subjunctive mood, and I don’t like to fantasize about “what ifs,” but we can be sure that if this “nice guy” had shown that he was “bad” at the very beginning of this mess, things might have been different. Although he was unlikely to be capable of it, just like now.
Hmm. Interesting how there seems to be an innate response in many to despise what they perceive as weakness in other people, that somehow having low, or zero, self-esteem is equated with being immoral.