Ex Booked a Cruise with Her, Affair Partner, and First Wife
Without her permission or encouragement, her ex-husband books his fantasy vacation — with her, his ex-wife, his Schmoopie, and his first wife, plus all the kids. WTF was he thinking?
***
Dear Chump Lady,
I found out three years ago that my ex-husband was cheating on me. Luckily, someone recommended your book right away. After reading it, I spent weeks on your website implementing as much of your advice as I could in order to ignore the pleading, begging, and love bombing that was thrown my way in order to keep me locked in a marriage prison.
Divorcing after 17 years with two young daughters was the most difficult and greatest accomplishment of my life.
Chump Nation was a big force in helping me to move forward with it. I have done the hard work to overcome the betrayal trauma. My focus has been on being the woman I would want my daughters to be. This includes my adult step-daughters from my ex’s previous marriage that I’ve maintained a positive relationship with.
Unfortunately, I’m unable to go no-contact with my ex because we get to “co-parent” for a few more years so I feel like I’m eating a lot of sh*t sandwiches. I know that I shouldn’t be shocked by anything this mentally disturbed vow-breaker does or says, but a recent text exchange from him is so delusional that I would love to share it with your community. (names changed for anonymity)
His initial text said:
“I have let Daughter One and Daughter Two know I want to take all of the kids and grandkids on another cruise early next year. I want to do something similar to the last time where I have several cabins together. Interested to know your thoughts about going with all of us. I was thinking of inviting Baby Mama #1 as well. Schmoopie will most likely be joining in and I would want you to know as much when considering going on the cruise.”
All of our children know the reason for the divorce.
None of them have embraced the relationship that he likes to call “the new normal,” so I’m not surprised that he is using an all-expenses paid vacation to entice them to spend time in the presence of the great twu wuv.
I have zero desire or intention of being a participant on his “Pick Me Cruise” that includes not only me and Schmoopie, but his first ex-wife as well. His idea to trap everyone in the middle of the ocean without the ability to escape whatever drama and chaos that he hopes will ensue is pure narcissistic genius.
The biggest surprise is that I’m finding myself having some empathy for Schmoopie.
I spent years being devalued and emotionally abused by this man. But at least I received two loving daughters (plus my bonus daughters), a beautiful home, and financial security through a generous divorce settlement. Schmoopie gets to spend one week every two months with him (they live in different cities 900 miles apart) and now a family vacation with his children who want nothing to do with her and his two ex-wives who want nothing to do with either of them.
Desperate and pathetic are the only words to describe a woman who chooses to participate in a game of “how low will you go” to win the grand prize of begging for breadcrumbs from a lying, cheating, narcissistic turd.
When I received his text, I chose to simply not respond.
This is my preferred comeback to many of his messages; yes, no, and maybe are my other favorites. He then sent me a screenshot of a message to him from Schmoopie that said:
“I would like (Chump) to go on the cruise. I’m completely open to a relationship with her and for all of us to do things together. Maybe we can all get together the next time I am in town.”
I wanted to respond with, “Bless her heart. I hope she finds her self esteem soon.” Instead I said nothing. So he sent me another text: “I decided to include you and you can decide later if you want to cancel. I booked you and Baby Mama #1 in a cabin together.” I finally responded with, “I am not going on the cruise, I have plans to watch paint dry that week.”
He has not brought it up again.
Thank you so much for your book and all you do to liberate chumps like me!
Signed,
Refuse to Cruise
***
Dear Refused to Cruise,
No notes! Your boundaries here were perfect.
A cruise with your ex and his assembled harem is one of the craziest cases of hoovering I’ve ever heard of. (If you can top this, CN, please do so in the comments.)
Of course it was a cruise.
You could conceivably throw yourself out of a moving car, but you’re trapped on a cruise. How could you possibly escape? Fling yourself into the ocean? There aren’t enough seafood buffets and shuffleboard to make that sh*t right.
What was he thinking? Oh hang on, I know. I decode FWs for a living.
He was thinking cake.
You, wife #1, Schmoopie all competing for the wonderfulness of him. Eating sh*t sandwiches to demonstrate your family bonhomie. Him the horny patriarch. You the supplicants. The kids his progeny, reflections of his glory. All united in his impression management, that what he didn’t Wasn’t So Bad. All for the low, low price of a sea cruise.
I have plans to watch paint dry that week.
I’m sure the dryer vents need cleaning too. Or maybe you have some gum you need to scrape off your shoe.
What was Schmoopie thinking?
She’s thinking she won this dreamboat and needs to demonstrate triumphalism. Why don’t you trap yourself in an underwater cabin and braid each other’s hair?
I would like (Chump) to go on the cruise. I’m completely open to a relationship with her and for all of us to do things together. Maybe we can all get together the next time I am in town.”
I think your paint is busy that week.
It’s particularly deranged that he wants you to bunk with wife #1. He’s generous, but not so generous as to spring for two cabins for his auxiliary narcissistic supply.
Does he think everyone can be bought?
Clearly, Schmoopie can be bought. She’ll play nice with the exes (I won the pick me dance!) It’s not that hard if you’re not that deep.
I guess the kids can go (Dad’s taking us on vacation!) and avoid her as best they can. I don’t know what your custody arrangement says about these sorts of things. But Disney Dads and forced family with affair partners = future therapy bills. Ugh.
He’s interested to ‘know your thoughts.’
Interested to know your thoughts about going with all of us. I was thinking of inviting Baby Mama #1 as well. Schmoopie will most likely be joining in and I would want you to know as much when considering going on the cruise.”
He’ll be interested to know you don’t think of him at all. His cruise invitation hasn’t thrown you into apoplexies of jealousy or anxiety. It’s become blog fodder. The same blog that helped you get rid of this loser.
Bon voyage FW!
Discover more from chump lady
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
There. Are. No. Words.
I’ve got one: Wow.
I love that Schmoopie lives in another city. She probably likes it that way and has someone in her own city she is sleeping with. As for your ex that type of ego is never satisfied, You handled it beautifully and made all of us fellow chumps proud…..
I’m guessing that Refuse to Cruise’s FW has spectacularly low levels of emotional intelligence. I just cannot see any other reason as to how he might think that what he was proposing might be acceptable to the others that he was trying to involve.
And for her response to his invitation to the “Cruise from Hell,” it’s nigh on perfect.
LFTT
She showed admirable restraint. I’m not sure I could have.
I must be at Meh because this has me howling with laughter.
I have to admit I always appreciate proof of the seriously deep issues and stunningly disordered thinking of the cheater and the side piece. Their ultimate cheater-side piece dream is We Are All Friends! See how it was All For The Best? Behold the Mature Adults maturely adulting!
This sounds like the pilot episode for The Real Housewives of Traitor Ex.
Preschoolers are light years more knowledgeable about the real-life dynamics of friendship and loyalty.
When my daughter was in preschool, we dropped by her friend’s house to say hello. Another little girl from their class, also a friend of my daughter’s, was already there on a play date. The two of them holed up in the bedroom and would not let my daughter in. The mother, someone I considered a friend, did nothing.
Friendships over all around.
OK, my jaw is now off the floor and back in its proper default factory setting.
“His idea to trap everyone in the middle of the ocean without the ability to escape whatever drama and chaos that he hopes will ensue is pure narcissistic genius.”
Yes. Exactly. It is extremely manipulative. Seven Layer chess level manipulative.
I read this to Little Hammer, now 19. She screamed as well.
Here are our joint thoughts….as experienced sailors and chump and chumped daughter….with decades of counseling with excellent therapists….who we both can hear screaming now….
1) Aside from his astoundingly obtuse ignorant absurd idea of proposing a cruise with all the aforementioned players, which is a terrible idea in the first place, if one were actually going to try to pull off an event like this, a marginally better idea would be to test out a gathering like this ON LAND AT A HOUSE FOR MAYBE DINNER, WHERE PEOPLE CAN SEE HOW IT GOES AND CAN LEAVE EASILY. And have a number of successful voluntary on-land get togethers in the books before TRAPPING EVERYONE IN THE MIDDLE OF THE OCEAN IN ADJOINING CABINS.
This is what we call a SEA TRIAL in the boating world. When buying a boat, you never take a new vessel offshore right away. You take short cruises close to land first.
2) Exit plan. Always. Available at any time. For any of the participants. Getting off the ship and flying home from a port of call optional at any time.
3) Support the decisions of those who want to go, or not go, but make sure it’s with informed consent. That would be making the decision to go or not armed the knowledge of how manipulative the whole situation is. I have to say the decision would be up to them, but I also have to say I would have to recommend not going and proposing the sea trial plan.
A day trip to Catalina Island would be very ambitious and challenging in this situation. This isn’t going to be the Love Boat. It could easily end up as a documentary on Netflix and it underscores underscores underscores the abject lack of healthy relationship skills on the part of this man and his side piece.
There are light years of healing footwork, steps that would need to happen BEFORE a trip like this would even be possible, and it
might never be possible.
The trip is NOT that footwork, not the place, not the time, and not the way to do it.
Proposing a trip like this is an attempt at skipping over all that work and manipulate everyone into pretending everything is fine when it’s not.
The more that I think about it, I find myself wondering if the FW was planning to stage some kind of a scene. Or something. Just sounds really weird.
Thank you for sharing the perspective from a chumped daughter. I look forward to the day when my daughters have matured and healed and we can all laugh together at the absurd things we made it through together. Preferably on a drama-free cruise ship.
Hi Refuse,
I want to validate your instincts on this.
You seem to be looking at the situation clearly with a healthy perspective and have a good grasp of how complex and ludicrous it is.
My former so-called husband was dead serious when he said he thought we would all be friends. I asked him if he was out of his mind. Thanks to Tracy and this blog, I learned this is a very common thing for us chumps to hear. What no one will ever be able to explain is WHY they think friendship is a reasonable possibility. (Because everyone said the emperor was wearing clothes!). I can see why they wish it were. (Because that will justify the horrific thing we did and we won’t have to feel like the destructive untrustworthy jerks we are!) I’ve heard of people claiming friendship with exes who cheat and have also learned they have very different ideas about friendship and loyalty and ascribe to other ideas and behaviors which insulate them from and anesthetize them to reality.
(For example, alcohol makes lots of intolerable things tolerable!)
I won’t tell anyone else what to do; we all have to decide for ourselves what is right. But if someone asks me what I think I will share my experience and I won’t advocate pursuing a course of action if I see warning signs.
If the girls decide to go, I’d definitely make sure there is an exit plan they can execute if things go south, which is very possible.
Huge hug to you!
♥️
I don’t get adults who allow their children to bully or exclude like this. I always think they must have read Grimm’s fairy tales and identified with the trolls, ogres and mean queens.
You and me, sister!
I don’t believe in karma per se but raising kids to be vile social climbers and bullies dooms them to a certain nasty social ecosystem and an inability to recognize or sustain real friendship. And they’re also raising kids with impaired empathy who may eventually dump them in nursing gulags– a “karma” of sorts. It makes no sense.
At the very least, where we get our ideas about how to behave in relationships, good and bad, goes all the way back, and is deeply ingrained. Obviously it’s better and easier if the programming goes well when we’re little as opposed to deleting and reprogramming later in life. I’m grateful I at least started the reprogramming process at 22, and the ongoing work of that still kicks my a** at 62…..😜 Lots of people never even bother and tragically I didn’t realize I was married to someone like that….😪
This is EXTREME. Yes, he’s majorly delusional that everyone will come and that it will be a happy-happy-happy vacation. Not ever.
When I was in the divorce process and no contact, someone in my old church began shaming me one Sunday at coffee time, saying that I needed to be in contact with my STBX during the divorce process so it would go better, and afterward so he and I (in separate rooms) could vacation with our college kids. After all, he’s an amazing person (apparently I’m not) and my children’s father. My husband used to preach there at times. So, yes, the preacher “aura” of amazingness.
My divorce involved what my attorney called the “four A’s”: abandonment, abuse (physical, emotional, spiritual), addiction (over a decade of pills), and adultery. The dude talked about my death at times when we were married and, at one point, shared with his attorney his plans for ending my existence. Oh, and he had been suicidal at times during our marriage and had one unsuccessful attempt. He also shared those thoughts with his attorney over the phone, and the attorney called the police for a wellness check. Then, of course, being an officer of the court, he called my attorney. My attorney called me, discussed steps to be extra vigilant, and said I should call his paralegal to make an appointment. Thankfully, my ex was supposedly living many states away, but you never know. We got the divorce done in a wild, dramatic flourish at the end, and fought our way through closeout because he dug his heels in on that too.
So back to the church discussion. I said, “Thank you for your thoughts.” I walked away.
Gosh, I’ve used that phrase so very many times. Just goes to show that there are delusional exes and delusional people everywhere. I stopped arguing with those sorts and justifying myself after I told my ex I would never-never-ever reconcile with him. I owned it. And no, I am never-never-ever going to take a vacation with my ex. Our adult offspring and I haven’t been in contact with him in years now.
Unlike some people, I live in REALITY.
That this creep even thinks he can organize a harem cruise probably reflects his confidence in his “skills” as an abuser. At least according to Irish DV expert, therapist and author Don Hennessy, this abuser likely believes that none of his victimized past or current partners or children have any choice but to keep placating and orbiting around him because that’s how he intentionally set everything up from day one.
In my effort to catch up on reading current books and studies about domestic abuse that I got behind in (due to dealing with… domestic abuse), I’m currently reading Hennessy’s How He Gets Into Her Head: The Mind of the Intimate Male Abuser.
This passage in particular is stellar regarding the ornate tactics used by abusers to entrap:
These initial tactics are hidden from the target woman and so it is inevitable that these tactics would remain hidden from us as we were all working with only one part of the story. Unfortunately we were working with the half of the story that the skilled offender wanted us to work with. We have all found ourselves struggling with questions like why was she abused, or why does she stay and prolong the abuse. We have tried to look at her and her psychological makeup for explanations. We have tried to distinguish between her and women who are not in abusive relationships. We have listened to her story and compared it to others which we regard as worse in their brutality or lethality.
In all of this we have managed to ignore the only relevant issue, which is that this particular woman is in an abusive relationship because she is a woman and was targeted by a skilled offender. When we begin to analyse her without knowing what has really happened to her it is more than likely that we will begin to blame her. We can expand that blame by saying that maybe she grew up in a family where this behaviour happened, or maybe we can define her as a woman of low confidence or lacking in self-esteem. We can ignore the effects of her experience by identifying her as angry, confused or co-dependent. Sometimes we are guilty of seeing her as tending to be depressive or paranoid or even mentally unwell.
What we are probably doing when we follow this line of thinking is we are buying into the explanations of the skilled abuser. These explanations are the same ones that the skilled abuser uses when he initially begins to set up the relationship.
The passage didn’t blow me away because it’s precisely new thinking but because it’s now the official benchmark for thinking about domestic abuse, which is that “more severe abuse = more skilled abuser” rather than “= more codependent victim.”
That in itself is massive progress in so-called “victimology” in the twenty years since I volunteered as a non-clinical advocate– namely that it’s now out of fashion to even look to victims to explain why domestic abuse happens in the first place. Though this is merely an expansion of the views that the late Evan Stark and fellow researcher and spearhead Anne Flitcraft presented over the course of their fifty + years of groundbreaking research and advocacy, what’s changed is that this is now the benchmark and many state funded domestic abuse education/intervention programs are barred from applying the moldy old “cOdEpEnDeNcy” view of abuse survivors anymore lest they lose their funding.
This progress is so extreme compared to back in the day that I feel like it goes a long way towards explaining the current retrograde backlash against women’s and victims’ rights. It’s because the progress is solid and now scientifically backed (thanks in great part to Stark and company) that it poses such a massive threat.
The backlash (which I think includes the cheater apologism in the mainstream media because, in my advocacy experience, all abusers cheat) could make it seem like we’re not actually in a golden age of intellectual and humanitarian advancements when, in fact, we are. But the only difference between, say, the Dark Ages and the Age of Enlightenment is about which side seems to be winning at any given time.
At least in this individual situation, the light is winning.
I’m always learning great things from your posts HOAC. Wish more therapists actually read like you do.
Exactly. Encounters with willfully ignorant “experts” and clinical specialists who hadn’t read a book in the twenty years since being licensed are what originally inspired me to train as an advocate and continue reading.
I think that, as “ultra-social animals,” even if we theoretically know what the truth is, some primal, hardwired faculty lodged in the prefrontal cortex or hypothalamus or wherever will still be highly attuned to social “zeitgeist” and can be involuntarily spellbound simply because perpetrators and abuse apologists seem so brazenly “assured” in their biases, as if they have the whole world nodding along with them. It can create an ominous feeling that my combat vet dad used to jokingly call being “dead right”– like you may be technically right but still doomed.
The only way I could think to combat that depressing signal was to populate my personal sphere and brain with as many people and resources on the “right side” as possible. It’s really a necessary counter strategy since, as Hennessy points out repeatedly, abusive personalities specialize in single-mindedly steering social contexts and “zeitgeist” to their own side. Unfortunately, they have so many enthusiastic enablers in the “helping” professions.
The “harem cruise” is actually something that celebrity Simon Cowell does.
FW wants to be a celebrity in his own mind and get attention
Ex narc was/is too cheap to spring for a vacation for anyone.but himself, but he once said that he and his coworkrersluthusbandpoacher would like to stop by and visit the next time they drive by my exit on the freeway because “we had a lot in common” and I’d like her. This was during the divorce and I wasn’t no contact yet so I simply responded that he and his toxic whore needed to stay the hell away from me.
“Refuse to Cruise” checking in here. I knew Tracy and my fellow chumps here would be able to relate to the ridiculousness of my current situation. I am loving my peaceful life and home without my ex around, but he’s still causing pain for our teen daughters. One of them told me that she was out to dinner with her dad one night and was telling him about her day, when mid-sentence he picked up his phone and called Schmoopie. When she found out about the cruise through a group text her dad sent that included Schmoopie, she came to me crying saying she didn’t want to go. I know her older sisters are seeing it as an opportunity to spend a week together and having Schmoopie there is the price to pay. I suggested she put the cruise out of her mind for now and just delete the group texts as they come through. I told her I would support her decision to go or not go on the cruise either way up until the day it’s time to leave. If anyone has any other suggestions on how I can best help her through this, I’d love to hear it.
Just look at what this monster has set up. Cruises have dinners at night — dinners where you sit with your family. So, he pictures being at the head of the table, surrounded by EIGHT women — all of whom were or are dependent on him. (It smacks of ownership to me, esp since he’s paying for everything.) It’s sick beyond words. (I knew that all the kids would be daughters, I knew it.)
All five daughters can have their own vacation without this scumbag and his games. I would be sorely tempted to offer that, and pay for it, but that probably would stir up just the drama that he wants. God, he’s seriously unhinged.
I think your youngest being a teen would take guidance from her older step/sisters as well. Are you comfortable with the attitudes of the older girls to influence the youngest? Maybe if they all hang together it will take pressure off of each of them as individuals.
Yes, there are a total of five daughters going. Ex’s two adult daughters (daughters one and two) from his first marriage, my adult daughter (daughter three) from my previous marriage, and my two teen daughters with FW. The daughter that is struggling is my oldest teen (so daughter four) and both she and I reached out to daughters two and three and asked them to be her safe place on the cruise if she gets triggered. I figure best case scenario, all five sisters have a fabulous time spending a week together. Worst case scenario, FW causes drama and chaos and leaves one or more daughters in tears. In that case, they will unfortunately have to learn the hard way that there is always a price to pay when it comes to “free” vacations.
If she decides to go, coach her to study the ship itinerary and layout well — there are a hundred ways to ditch an unpleasant companion on a cruise under the guise of “adventures on vacation.” Pick out an assortment of things that she can do to escape – movie theater, the gym, trivia games, bingo, comedy club, whatever — especially if she can buddy up with another sister so she’s not wandering off too alone.
Hang in there, Refuse to Cruise. Try not to take it too personally when all 5 of your daughters end up embarking on the stupid fuckwit float.
Have a solid self-care plan in place for that time next spring, including pre-planned stuff for you to take your mind off it as it’s happening. This is the time for radical self-care. The kids are alright. 🩵
Not if she gets triggered — when she gets triggered. Sorry, I’m not being a negative-nancy, but she’s already in tears. He will yank someone’s chain, for sure, and probably more than one person since everyone is captive.
Wow – you are so right! That broke my heart a little bit. I used to joke when we traveled together during my marriage that “It isn’t a family vacation if Mom and Dad don’t get in a fight.” Looking back, I realize how sad that was for me and for my daughters. The FW isn’t happy until someone around him isn’t happy, so he will definitely be yanking chains while they are all trapped at sea. I told my adult daughter from my previous marriage that she needs to be careful to not take his bait and if she can, help the other sisters to not take it either. This will leave his need to for a fight to be redirected at Schmoopie.
Why is everyone prepping what contortions they’ll deploy to appease this guy? I’m not directing at you, Refuse, just a kind of out-loud wondering. This is what he wants. This is what he sets up. People conforming to his insanity.
Again, just a philosophical wondering, truly, ’cause lawd knows I’ve been there. Maybe young girls’ vacations shouldn’t require strategies to deal with an adult man’s ego. (And it is ego; the invitations to all the ex-wives + Schmoopie tells us that.)
Since FW in my situation once angrily called me a “Luddite” in front of the kids because I assured them that AI would never be able to replace organic human creativity (tell AI to write a poem. I rest my case), I now get a bit of a kick from hoisting Claude-bro on his own AI petard by using it to scour academic research on abuser psychology. Here’s what Gemini says about the relationship between “spoilerism” (spoiling special occasions) and Cluster B personality disorders.
While “spoilerism” is widely discussed in popular psychology and relationship forums, it is not a recognized clinical or academic term. Consequently, you will not find peer-reviewed journal articles explicitly using the word “spoilerism.” [1, 2]
However, the specific behavioral pattern it describes—deliberately or unconsciously undermining, sabotaging, or ruining special occasions, holidays, or milestones—is extensively documented in academic literature under formal psychological constructs. In Cluster B personality disorders (Narcissistic, Borderline, Antisocial, and Histrionic), these behaviors are studied through the lenses of interpersonal antagonism, emotional dysregulation, and attention-seeking dynamics. [1, 2, 3]
The behavioral pattern of ruining special occasions translates into academic research through several distinct clinical mechanisms:
1. Narcissistic Injury and Rage (Narcissistic Personality Disorder)
In academic literature on Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), special occasions are recognized as frequent triggers for “narcissistic injury”. [1]
2. Emotional Cascades and Fear of Abandonment (Borderline Personality Disorder)
For individuals with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD), holidays and milestones represent intense emotional triggers rather than malicious sabotage. [1, 2]
3. Deliberate Sabotage and Antisocial Behavior (Antisocial Personality Disorder)
Within Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD), ruining events can be a calculated display of dominance or a result of low empathy. [1]
4. Histrionic Attention-Seeking (Histrionic Personality Disorder)
Histrionic Personality Disorder (HPD) centers squarely on an overwhelming need to be the center of attention. [1]
Where to Look in the Databases
If you are searching academic databases like PubMed, PsycINFO, or Google Scholar, bypass the word “spoilerism” and instead use these keywords and search strings:
"Narcissistic personality disorder" AND "interpersonal antagonism""Cluster B" AND "behavioral dysregulation" AND "holidays""Borderline personality disorder" AND "emotional cascades" AND "stressors""Pathological narcissism" AND "narcissistic rage" AND "social triggers"[1, 2]Oh Refuse, I feel for your daughter. What a difficult situation to be in! You sound like a reasonable and loving mother and I’m sure you will handle it well. Here are a couple of thoughts based on my experience with two children and a dad that did similar things (though nowhere near as dramatic as that proposed guest list ).
Back to my original point, these are just some thoughts, I’m sure you will do great. We would love to hear how it works out.
Thank you; these are great suggestions! The cruise isn’t until spring, but I will definitely have to come back and post a post-cruise update. I love your points number 5 and 6 because I feel like FW has attempted to place me in a lose-lose situation where if I go on the cruise, I get to eat at the sh*t sandwich buffet, but by choosing to not go, he can paint me as the bitter ex-wife who is unable to move on to the new normal like everyone else. Over the past few months I’ve been able to combat this narrative by firstly not responding with anger or bitterness to any of his baiting. Secondly, I’ve explained to my daughters that my choice to not include Schmoopie in my life is similar to them choosing to not be friends with certain kids who have either hurt them or just simply make different choices that don’t align with their values. They don’t have to be unkind or cruel to anyone, but they don’t have to be friends with them either.
I completely agree. This is a big power-over game, with you as a loser in the scheme of things, no matter how you slice it.
I like how you explained it to your daughters. I did the same, giving mine a “we should choose who to have close to us” talk a few times.
Ultimately, my kids chose not to have any contact with Dad post-divorce. They were in college when it was finalized, so there were no custody issues. Yes, he completely blamed and shamed me over that break, and reportedly still does. They made an adult decision that, frankly, I admire. They are way more aware of red flags in relationships than I was in my 20’s.
Definitely remain available to talk about it if she wants to (and she may not, since I’m sure it’s draining). Perhaps plan something fun to do during that time with her should she remain not wanting to go that is low stakes/cancellable in case she gets FOMO and changes her mind. It’s pretty shitty that her father is dangling being able to spend time with her sisters on a cruise that also involves his betrayal object in front of her like that. Self-important dumbass.
Thank you! I take the girls on regular vacations as I included the vacation budget in my alimony – thank goodness I followed Tracy’s advice and got the divorce settled during his affair fog state. I like your idea of letting her plan something she’d like to do; if she ends up going on the cruise, we can still do her vacation at another time. This has the added benefit of showing her that I value her wants and suggestions versus a manipulated vacation that doesn’t include any input from her. The last time Schmoopie was in town, this same daughter declined dad’s invitation to hang out with her and he blamed my hostility plus daughters two and three for influencing her decision. He is completely incapable of taking any accountability and yelled at me that it is my responsibility to be an example by supporting his new relationship. After that, I no longer take his phone calls.
Sounds like you are solid, mama. I know it hurts extra to watch your kids have to go through their own hell in the wake of infidelity and all of the harm it causes to their notion of a safe home and family. Hopefully it will be an important lesson about relationships for them though, despite never wanting negative lessons to come from a parent. You just continue to be there to provide the positive lessons, be their safe home and family.
I was so steeped in an increasingly hot pot of water over nearly 3 decades with my ex and his toxic family that I didn’t think much of the *strangeness* of his family dynamics.
His parents divorced when he was 18 years old, and he revealed that his dad’s current wife might have been the OW he suspected his dad was having an affair with in the run-up to their divorce. Never officially determined, however. Of course it was all hush hush.
Both parents remarried, and badly. The new spouses (including the suspected OW) caused no end of drama and grief throughout the family, time after time. All the grandkids felt it and eventually became alienated from their step grandparents.
Despite the crazy, we had week-long family vacations together at rented resorts at least twice. (!!!) One big “happy” family of my narcissist FIL and his awful Scmoopie wife, my sweet abuse victim MIL and her 2nd abusive husband, and all of us and the grandkids. Looking back, it WAS truly a Look How Mature We Are display and a Divorce Doesn’t Have to Break up Family, It’s Not That Bad display.
And we all celebrated holidays together in one of my in-law’s homes – for decades. When my sweet MIL turned 80 she only wanted close family around on her birthday. For her that included her ex and his awful Schmoopie!
Over the years my clearsighted sister would say “That’s so weird!” and “What a strange family!” but I didn’t truly grasp it until my ex’s cheating and abuse came out. Only then did I realize that with all the FWs in that family this was normalized, but it wasn’t normal.
Not my circus anymore! The only thing sad about that for me is that I want to stay connected with nieces and a nephew on that side, with whom I was close. One of them invited me to his wedding reception this weekend. I would’ve loved to go to celebrate him and his new bride, and meet the latest great grandchild in the family. But….my ex and his new wife will be there.
NO, I will.not.continue.the.same pattern by showing up and pretending that we can all be friends. I will show my support for the nephew in other ways.
Refuse to Cruise, you are mighty for refusing the circus acts, and supporting your daughter who doesn’t want to go. Stay tuned in to yourself and to your girls.
Obviously, you’re not going anywhere with this idiot. So good job!
I wasn’t going to comment on this one-it sounds like you have your ducks on a row and know better not to get trapped with all of this (and I hope your kids are smart enough to avoid same). Where I got the red hot needle in my brain over this was the part where “the new model would like for you to come and is open to relationship.”
That’s where my “the audacity!” trigger got pulled. “Well, so and so wants this, so I think you should do it.” No reference to “what it is YOU want or YOU would be comfortable with.”
My traitor’s Schmoopie apparently wanted a friendship with me. “When you acknowledge the presence of the trap, it is a trap no longer.”
Personally I’m at the point in my journey where going on any large group vacation sounds like my version of hell, let alone with hostile forces and eventually having to referee some blowout.
A woman once told me I could hire a tour-guide company for a private vacation, I just needed to invite 16 friends to come along to form a big enough group. It was then that I realized she and I don’t live on the same planet.
The funny thing is that most group discounts aren’t that much of a savings. Pay more but deal with fewer people? Yes please.
This whole thing unlocked memory: when I started dating my Traitor, we got invited to a “big family cabin in the woods” thing with her relatives. I liked the pictures of the place, I liked the price. I was initially very interested.
Then the story changed. More people were coming all of the sudden. The price went up, we weren’t going to have our own room together anymore, and there was going to be a “chores list.” For whatever reason, they did not understand that “pay more get less” was not something I was down with (to say nothing of the 10 hour drive one way). Needless to say-we didn’t go.
If I recall correctly the whole thing didn’t even fire after that-I got the impression that someone key actually backed out and they were hoping that I’d be more than happy to pay the way more than my share to float people I never met (ala the old “third roommate does not pay 50% of the rent for the other two” argument). Probably should have paid more careful attention-THAT was what I was throwing my lot in with. But you know what they say about “rose colored glasses” and “red flags.”
Caught my FW communicating with prostitutes in Colombia )after having been there on a trip) AND wiring them money as one claimed she had “cancer” (possibly related to boob job or nose job or Botox—-could be more but that’s all I could see from the photo she shared with him) and another (18 yo & needed money for school & FW is 82 without working “equipment”) young gal. Claimed communication was ongoing because he was setting up a foundation to help these poor women. YES…..sexual exploitation under the guise of philanthropy AND he wanted ME to go back to Colombia with him to set this all up! MUCH more to the tawdry story but I’ll spare you. He cannot believe I am divorcing him because “I gave you a good life.” Told him I would let all of his friends and family know that when I showed them his emails and sex chatter to all the women (more than two because, cake!!)…..you know, to make him all legit and stuff.
Cannot. Make. This. S**t. Up!!!
The incessant need for cheaters to pretend everything is OK — with the betrayed ex, with the children, with the extended family — is easily the most tiring aspect of post-divorce trauma and abuse. It’s also the cheaters’ oxygen tank to feel like a good person. That tank deteriorates over time, shame and guilt creeps in … then BAM! I offered. We’re the mature people. We’re above it all.
No, dipshits, you’re just broken and keep painting over the cracks rather than fixing the foundation.
Refuse to cruise does have a problem in that she has 2 young children with this turd. They would want to go on the cruise and Chump could care for them while the Harem of exs and schmoopies gyrate around the king of them all. If cheater goes ahead and books without permission, he must think Refuse to Cruise is still sweet on him and open to fun family- harem activities all together. That door has not been shut…at least not very tightly. No contact instead of texting activities is the way to go. A generous settlement does not mean open access. Just my thoughts. My daughter did ask.me if I would cruise with my Ex-her dad- his wife -tress..my 5 grandchildren and my son, DIL daughter and son in law. She was hurt when I said NO..because WE ALL COULD BE TOGETHER for a week. It sounded almost possible if I could swallow the 1 week sandwich 🥪 but I can’t keep my lips shut that long. Guess I’ll stay on land and miss out. I’ll stay sober then.
I so look forward to the day when I can finally go no contact (still five years of co-parenting left)! I don’t believe my ex thinks I want him back, but he would enjoy keeping me around for narcissistic supply. He knew I wouldn’t want to go on the cruise, but now he can tell the story that he and Schmoopie really wanted to include me, but I’m just too bitter to accept his generous gift. As I continue to be the sane parent that shows up consistently with empathy and love, my daughters know the truth. They also know they are being manipulated, but they really want to go on the cruise and deep down, they all want him to finally show up and be the dad they deserve. Until I’m able to go no-contact, I am choosing low-contact with a mix of grey rock (to show he doesn’t phase me) and yellow rock (to show I am a reasonable co-parent). I also believe him inviting me and his first ex-wife has less to do with us and more to do with Schmoopie. He felt I discarded him when I filed for divorce (these cheaters are truly mentally ill) so his dream woman will stick with him no matter what (the ultimate doormat). It’s a test to see how low she is willing to go.
Refuse the Cruise mom– you are AMAZING!! I get the grey to yellow rock,plus I added a light grey rock which is less than yellow- but not as hidden as the grey..it’s more polite.i have to give you a blue ribbon because I know plenty of chumps who would agree..”for the children” and for the sake of unity., forgiveness, still -in- the -dance, still want to make others jealous and then to post those forgiveness – unity photos of the cruise. All to show a magnanimous personality. It is refreshing to hear you decided not to go but understand your children’s needs and yours. That Ex of you have has truck loads of chutzpah to ask as he did expecting all to join in his open arms to show the world, he too can have 3 woman all wanting him. Just WOW!
“…but now he can tell the story that he and Schmoopie really wanted to include me, but I’m just too bitter….”
That can be his story, but the only ones who matter will know better. He can paint you as bitter, but when they see you are not bothered by missing out on this trip, not bothered that they are going and that you support your daughters’ decision to go or not, your daughters will know you are not bitter. You are living your life.
You can be glad they are going (or not) and share with them what you will be doing while they are gone (traveling, deep cleaning, Netflix & chill, watching paint dry or something special if your daughter decides to stay home) and that you are looking forward to the time away and to the time when you all come back together and share your experiences. Not to be all Pollyanna about it but just so they can clearly get the message that you are good and mighty. They can decide to wise up their father or not but they will see his delusion for themselves. And be grateful they have one sane parent to lean on.
Oh and I forgot to mention that before “winning” my turd, Schmoopie’s previous relationship was 19 years with a married man. So I think it’s already obvious how low she is willing to go.
“So he sent me another text: “I decided to include you and you can decide later if you want to cancel. I booked you and Baby Mama #1 in a cabin together.” ”
I don’t know that I wouldn’t have been tempted to tell him to go ahead, book the larger room and then be unable to go the morning of the trip. Just to make him spend more money. Plus it would provide more cover if one of the other kids needs still more space from the rest.
But your comment that you’ll be watching paint dry really is for the best.
Whatever your daughters decide to do, I hope they can support one another AND avoid FW and Schmoopie. He’s just the old creeper on the boat that they’re avoiding.
May you and your daughters have a fantastic vacation together at another time. FW free!
How do you refrain from messing with this man? I’d have said, “Oh wonderful! I’ll bring Howard/Humphry/Charles (pick one) and it will be our honeymoon! or I’d have said: “Oh thank you!” and let him pay for the room, the cruise, and then not show up. I mean, how do you resist?
I’ll have to keep these ideas in my back pocket for next time! One of the adult daughters asked him if she could bring her long-term boyfriend and he said, “Not unless he puts a ring on it. This is a family cruise.” Oh the hypocrisy! When my daughter told her boyfriend about it, he said he wouldn’t want to be a part of that sh*t show anyway.
Um, did I miss something…I thought that schmoopie was just a girlfriend…did FW ring her up, or is he just being extra special hypocritical?
Another idea because I am just that petty: Arrange with the girls beforehand that every time a camera comes out for the “one big happy family” photos they should all put the sourest looks they can muster on their faces. Let dear old dad know how everybody feels about his deluse cruise. (“Deluse” like delusional.)
Oh, that’s a good one!
Daughter should say, okay we’re getting married AND I’m bringing my affair partner. Just like you, Dad.
YES! Thank you everyone for your feedback, your suggestions, and for giving me a safe space to vent with other people who truly understand the challenges of the chump life!
I think CL used a very precise and caustic metaphor of “harem”.
This megalomaniac bastard thinks of himself as a sultan and is under the illusion that all women only think about his generosity and greatness, regardless of who is the Main/First wife, who is the Second wife, and who is just a concubine.
He wants regular Scheherazade to give herself to him every night and tell him a new fairy tale, so the cruise ship is just one of his palaces with servants and guards, but unfortunately without eunuchs. Therefor he needs to be on guard, in case one of his “wives” will sleep in another cabin and not with him.
Maybe that’s why he decided to put wife #1 and OP in the same cabin to make them keep an eye on each other.
It would be funny if one or all of his exes either invited their BFs / #1’s husband (if any) on a cruise or found BFs on a ship and started openly dating them.
Then it would be a real friendly extended family for every taste!
Wow. He booked a room for her to share with Baby mama?
Who knows if that kid is his biologically? Its a way for some women to make money.
And its a cliche but FW said to me that Id like her, we have alot in common and could be friends. Ok.
As CL said what we have in common is liking him. Who knows? Maybe she is awesome, sweet, kind, but selfish, to fall for a married mans BS? Definitely not very intelligent, no qualms about hurting his children, no morals.
This is one of the nuttier stories I’ve read on this site. Not the nuttiest, but pretty d*mn nutty.