My Cheater Ex-Husband Demands ‘Civility’
Her cheater ex-husband is preemptively demanding “civility” should she encounter him again. Which assumes she’d be uncivil? How does she get him and his insults out of her head?
****
Dear Chump Lady
I messaged you a few months ago about whether I should go to ex-father in law’s funeral when it comes round. Turns out FW is having the same thoughts. He has contacted the husband of my best friend, asking him to ask me if I will agree to be civil to him at future family events ‘for the sake of the children and grandchildren.’
For a start I’m annoyed at him using my friends as go-betweens. I guess he knows I don’t want him to contact me directly. But I also don’t want him to contact me indirectly!
Secondly, he’s got a cheek asking for civility.
Truth is my adult sons never invite him to family events out of respect for me. I think he’s trying to weedle his way back in to being included and if I say no he’ll blame me for the exclusion. Thirdly, it’s laughable that he is wanting this ‘for the sake of the kids/grandkids’. He has never done anything to prioritise them, including hurting them by going off with Schmoopie (who has now deserted him).
Am I being immature and unforgiving to say civility is out of the question because I never want to be within a 5-mile radius of him ever again? Not saying that won’t change in the future, but that’s how I feel now and I can’t see it ever changing?
I think he’s just playing weedling mindgames with me.
I don’t want him getting in my head again.
Thanks.
Worried About Being Painted As Immature and Selfish
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Dear Worried About Being Painted As Immature and Selfish,
I think it’s too late. He’s in your head and you’re writing to me. But it’s okay, we can eject him. Here’s a mantra:
Your ex is not the judge of your civility.
How you comport yourself in this world — even at his father’s as-yet-unannounced funeral — is none of his business. You can show up in peek-a-boo lingerie and kiss the corpse. He doesn’t control you. Isn’t divorce grand?
However, if you were going to take etiquette tips from an expert, it wouldn’t be from a failed husband and his wandering dick. So, consider the source.
He has contacted the husband of my best friend
I don’t know about this guy. He was probably broadsided, but a best friend (or her husband) would never let you know this conversation happened. They’d deep-six it as the irrelevant bid for attention it is. I understand the temptation to say, “You’re not going to believe the stunt FW just pulled…” But they should resist that temptation.
No contact is precious.
And on the off chance you have a protection of abuse order on your ex, trying to contact you through third parties is considered a breach of the law and you could have him arrested. Just a thought if he persists in unwanted contact. But at this stage I would just deny his mindf*ck oxygen.
asking him to ask me if I will agree to be civil to him at future family events ‘for the sake of the children and grandchildren.’
This is the age-worn manipulation known everywhere as How Long Have You Been Beating Your Wife?
It’s a loaded question with a false premise (that you beat your wife, that you’re uncivil). Whichever way you answer implies that you agree with the premise.
I AM ONLY UNCIVIL ON TUESDAYS!
He’s trying to put you on the back foot, arguing about your manners, where he can judge if your efforts are worthy or not. Revert to our first mantra: Your ex is not the judge of your civility.
But, but… I want him to choke on his hypocrisy.
I know. We all do. Getting lectures by cheaters about the welfare of The Children is galling. But we live in a golden age of hypocrisy. I avoid the news cycle and plant irises. We all have to find ways to distract ourselves from FWs and self soothe.
Am I being immature and unforgiving to say civility is out of the question because I never want to be within a 5-mile radius of him ever again?
No. You’re being sane. But please, don’t fall into the trap of “saying” ANYTHING. You don’t owe ANYONE a response to his idiotic provocation. Not the FW, not the best friend’s husband. No one. In fact, if I were you, I’d just avoid the funeral all together. If the FIL meant anything to you, go visit and say goodbye now and skip your ex’s family and the room-temperature sandwiches.
You don’t ever have to see your ex again if you don’t want to.
Not saying that won’t change in the future, but that’s how I feel now and I can’t see it ever changing?
He’s your past. You have grown children who have their own relationship with him (existent or nonexistent). Seeing him or not seeing him is no measure of your maturity or if you’re “moved on.” (Who holds that yardstick anyway?)
I think you’re falling into this common chump fallacy that we’re supposed to be the magnanimous forgiving person, the civil person on the high road, to a FW who has never attempted repair or apology. Why would you accept that burden? It’s not churlish to nope out of this altogether.
Where is HIS civility?
Has he paid your legal bill? Did he apologize for wasting years of your life while he had a double one? Does he rend his garments in your presence? No?
Then why are you held to a different standard?
(I see you in the back of the class, feminists. Misogyny! But it’s a basic human power dynamic. Kings don’t say sorry.)
He can shove his tea sandwiches where the sun doesn’t shine. With an extended pinky finger.
No. Not really. (If it feels good don’t do it.)
But you can imagine that while you’re not responding. Return to meh.
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During the process of my divorce and during the years after, I learned a lot about communicating with a disordered person. First, I trained him that all communication needed to be written. After one particularly nasty incident I refused to be alone with him, so any attempts at communication in person always had a witness. I would not answer the phone if he called. I set up a new email address and he had to send any messages to that email address. When he sent a message I never responded immediately. Sometimes I would wait several hours before even reading it. I would consider the message and decide if it NEEDED a response. If no response was needed that was that. If I felt that I had to respond, I would use as few words as possible. After my youngest child became an adult, I blocked him on that email address.
Worried, a message sent via the spouse of a friend is not something that needs a response. Frankly, the spouse of your friend is not your friend if he thinks this is something that should be communicated as a serious request. Your ex is trying to manipulate your friends into thinking that you are not a nice person by making this request. If the spouse is pressing you for an answer tell him that you have nothing to say on the matter. Alternatively, you could explain that disordered people expect others to do what they would do. This “request” from your former spouse is merely a confession that he plans to not be civil if you should meet.
Whole heartedly agree.
A disordered person will take issue with your communication style no matter what it is or how you do it so better to have things in writing and a witness present.
My FW once asked for a favor (in writing), to which I replied simply “no”.
FW responded that “no” is not an allowed response – that it was hostile and disrespectful.
I decided that, while I didn’t agree, it cost me nothing to throw in a few platitudes. So next time FW asked for a favor I responded “Sorry, but no – that doesn’t work for me”.
FW replied with a two-page nastygram saying that my “for me” had revealed that I was selfish and self-centered and was ignoring the children’s needs. And demanded that I come up with some other reason if I wanted to say “no” to her.
There is no response that works with these people.
“FW responded that “no” is not an allowed response – that it was hostile and disrespectful.”
Wow. Just…wow. “Not an allowed response” – seriously? Did she think she owned you?
“No” is a complete sentence!
Good lord.
This one I asked the OG FW of my life my estranged-for-a-reason- FW-mother towards the end of my final reconciliation attempt with her and it still boggles my brain
“What do I hope to gain from reconciliation?
I hope to achieve peace of mind knowing that you and your family are ok. I’d like to experience a joyful event with you and my grandchildren before time takes my memory away. I’d like to enjoy meaningful conversations with you that don’t deteriorate into accusations and name calling. I’d like to see pictures of my grandchildren as they grow up, just like any grandparent. I’d like to enjoy a holiday or birthday with my grandchildren as they gleefully open their gifts.
The metrics to measure success? Let’s start with a simple request like showing me a picture or talking to me on the phone.
One more thing. I want to be treated with common courtesy, not like a drill sergeant barking out orders. I’d like us to work together with mutual respect to resolve our issues.”
Head meet Blender.
I wanted to get right into it point out the blatant guilt tripping while glossing over the multiple safety issues she directly caused because of her Fwittery that she refuses to acknowledge.
I wanted to point out every single attempt I made to initiate meaningful conversations with her about everything from fluff pop culture, books, TV shows, movies, music, podcasts etc to more mid level political and current events to deeper philosophical or various spiritual/ religious topics as well as trying to be supportive of her preferred topic of interest and attempting to sidestep all the touchy subjects.
I wanted to point out how family centered events like weddings, funerals, reunions, holidays, vacations or birthdays are meant for people whose loyalty and integrity allow for an ongoing relationship where people feel safe. A person with a long history of chronic mental illness, who neglects, abuses, and abandons on a whim for a limerance object would have a lot of work to do to prove they are safe enough to allow to access at those events.
It was a combination of realizing that she never even bothered to ask me what I hoped to gain by reconciling with her, that she has absolutely zero genuine remorse so she is defaulting back to pleasant sounding words in an attempt to FOG her way out of the consequences of her own actions, that she feels entitled to access of my children so she can use them as props to bribe in her ongoing telenovelas delusion even though I set that as a clear boundary long before that point and had to repeat it several times and the level of ick I felt when she used the word “gleefully” immediately followed by her Trojan horse send nudes equivalent.
I didn’t do any of that.
Instead i just asked her if her comparison to drill sergeant barking out orders was her interpretation of mutual respect or does that fall under the category of deteriorating into accusations and name calling?
Crickets.
You are absolutely right there is no response that works with these people.
“nastygram”… perfect. 😮
Worried About Being Painted As Immature and Selfish,
The great thing about occupying the moral high ground is that you don’t have to allow yourself to be held to account by low-life cheating vermin. You don’t owe him (or his interlocutor) an answer to the civility question and, personally, I’d avoid the funeral and find another way of showing your respect when the time comes.
LFTT
Yes, you can send a card in the mail.
Yes, it was a major insight to me that I didn’t have to drop to his (or his family’s) level. And I never, ever have to interact unless I want to.
On Saturday, I skipped a funeral. I truly had somewhere else I needed to be anyway, and the couple that was going to be at the forefront are no longer friends of mine. His dad passed, someone I had met only 1-2 times. I sent a card.
They perpetually treated me post-divorce as broken and inept, even some years later. I got so sick of it that I pushed them to the outskirts. I had to sit with them at a wedding in October (assigned seating), and I told the friend who was with me that we might not stay long. Sure, I could have asked to be moved, but the room was small, and I didn’t. My conversation was general and friendly. We left after the cake was cut.
Yes, moral high ground.
I was very civil during the long separation and divorce. I picked an attorney who valued that, saying that I wanted to maintain my dignity throughout. My attorney was a brilliant negotiator and litigator, and a Southern gentleman to the core. My ex picked an ugly pitbull, reflecting his own ugliness.
And yet my ex kept saying that I needed to be civil. I was. He was not.
I worried for some time about how I’d handle any family funerals on his side that came up, including potentially his. I discussed it with our college kids. He was older and in poor health. We decided to read the situation as it was at the time. Never happened.
Years later, I doubt they’d even contact me if he or one of them passed. There was a lot of shame associated with how our marriage crumbled because they were very religious people who didn’t divorce. My guess is that if he passes first, they’ll quietly handle it and that’s that. And if one of them passes, I wouldn’t be included. So it is.
I think a lot of these FW exes think “civil” means, “Doing what I want them to do.” It brings to mind the Princess Bride, “That word does not mean what you think it means.”
In the early days of the divorce process, my ex used to be able to manipulate me by saying, “It’s what’s best for ‘daughter.'” That stopped working it’s magic when I realized someone with shitty parenting judgement has zero authority to announce what’s best for our daughter.
This
Yes I got this too about civility from FW pathological liar sociopath! Everything is parenting app only. Pointing out his marital asset theft in response to a pity party message about finances, seems perfectly factual to me ROFLMAO.
To be overly concerned with looking less saintly than a martyr = classic case of chump falling for FW manipulation. Remember that they’ve had years to perfect how to gaslight and manipulate the soft-hearted chump.
Yes, it’s an attempt at continuing to exert control.
Yes, my ex 100% knew what was “best” for me and best for our college students. He had become even more patriarchial after he left under the influence of his oldest brother.
Well, that didn’t stick. The divorce settlement shifted to something way more fair, and he failed to put in much at all that related to our college students because they were, of course, adults with their own agency. He failed to get that, even telling me at one point that I needed to stop feeding them to “force” them to interact with him. Except they were gone most of the day and many evenings with school and work. So I ignored that insanity.
He had the gall to tell YOU how to behave! SMDH!
Incredible, isn’t it!
I know. My attorney highlighted that more than a few times, noting that we were being reasonable and polite and would win the day. And we did.
In closeout, my ex continued to vomit on me in emails, which I handled with Bill Eddy’s BIFF method. So paragraphs and paragraphs of my awfulness, and I’d reply, “I mailed the car titles today. Please turn those around so I can go to the DMV. Hope you’re doing well!”
I truly hit meh when the judge signed off. Nothing he said or did after that ramped me up. My attorney (the younger associate by then) and I laughed it off.
My ex’s father passed away shortly after discovery of the affair. I was going to attend to be there for my daughter. The morning I was scheduled to fly, I got into my car and the battery was dead. The relief I felt was immense. My daughter was an adult and she handled herself without me. Do not feel like you have to attend. If you were close to the father, you can honor him in your own way. Your sons will understand if they know the situation and you should not have to deal with the stress that the event will put on you. It is not worth your health. the best healing is no contact.
That battery really chose its moment.
Cheaters would like us to ignore the elephant in the room and the big pile of poop it left on the floor.
I am no contact with FW except at family events, now mostly grandchildren birthday parties. Then I do not engage her and leave her on the ignore setting. That’s as civil as my boundaries allow.
They chose to invite the elephant so they can deal with it.
I’m with our leader Chump Lady on this. The appropriate response is…none. Which has the benefit of letting him wonder how you’re going to behave.
Couldn’t resist after seeing the Soprano’s series again. To the tune of Dean Martin’s Ritorna-Me (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpBjgQlT_jA):
Return to meh
(Oooh-waaah-ooh-ooh)
And guard your f*cks fiercely
(Waaah oooh)
Cause you don’t owe jack
Or tertiary contact
To that goon
Return to meh
(Oooh-waaah-ooh-ooh)
Resist Stockholm syndrome
(Waaah oooh)
Now that you’re out of reach
He’s still trying to breach
Boundaries
Remember how he never said sorry?
And wouldn’t know civil
If it bit his left nut?
Return to meh
(Oooh-waaah-ooh-ooh)
Come back to the dark side
(Waaah oooh)
We’ve got cookies and snark
Our tank has zero sharks
And f*cks
Ritorna meh
(Oooh-waaah-ooh-ooh)
Lascia perdere nella polvere
(Waah ooh)
Sticazzi, sticazzi, sticazzi, sticazzi
È un verme
FW brought Schmoops to our oldest son’s graduation. My son felt he had no choice. FW told our kids that their mom might freak out at him or Schmoops so they were to be on alert & intervene if needed. I noticed my kids were so nervous that I finally asked wth is up? When they told me, I laughed & said they’re totally not worth my time or the effort. But I was seething inside! It was all to make me look unstable & crazy to justify why he had an affair & left. I didn’t contact FW about it after either. I let my behaviour at grad speak for itself.
My guess is that most FWs so frequently use the “b*tch be crazy” tagline to control the expectations of schmoopies (as in “God, no, we can’t be together on February 14th/Christmas/my birthday/your birthday/etc. because my batsh*t crazy spouse will go postal and burn the house down” and the like) that they end up believing their own confabulations.
Yup, HOC, that’s me “bitch be crazy” so much so that I’m trusted to work in the ER. You know they let anyone work there these days lol. And you’re right, FW ran away from me when I confronted him outside his work (he took off & wasn’t answering calls). He told his co-workers (some of them are friends with me) that he thought I was there to unalive him. FWs sure think a lot of themselves 🙄
Sounds like he repeated the bs so many times that he spellbound himself into believing it’s true. It also sounds like idea originated as a projection. In other words, it could be that he fantasized a lot about unaliving you which in turn led him to spin his l*thal intent as “justifiable” by reasoning that it would merely be self defense because “Er, yeah, um, she’s, uh, plotting against me! That’s the ticket!”
The confabulation mental trick seems kind of like a skeleton key that can open any lock except instead it’s about the ability to justify any transgression no matter how heinous because– voila– they can always rewrite history. That’s why I think people with this quirk should be regarded as dangerous since there’s really no limit to what they could potentially rationalize or distort, up to and including redrum.
I’m going to echo the calls for you to just skip the funeral. Honor him in your own way, but don’t put yourself through that.
My FW is attempting this mindf**k on me too. He has the audacity to judge my insistence of minimal contact (only when absolutely necessary regarding our children) and is conveniently propagating this false equivalency that I am now the one ruining everyone’s lives because I can’t just get over it and play happy co-parents. We’ve all see this over and over again – it’s the chump’s reaction that’s the problem, not what they’re reacting to. Mmmkay.
I think he expected the opposite from me because schmoopie’s husband did the pick me dance for a year and still bends over backwards to make their co-parenting set up as warm and fluffy as possible. I guess my FW assumed I’d just do the same when I found out a year later. Beg him to stay, promise to fix my ‘faults’, do anything I could in an attempt to keep this magnificent stand-up partner and father central to our lives. Ha! he had a very rude awakening.
In his mind, he apologised and accepted that having an 18month affair with his boss was wrong so what more do I want? And anyway, plenty of people have affairs so it’s really not that big a deal. Surely, after finally discovering his deceit, we could all just get along for the sake of the kids and be one big happy blended family (me and my kids and him, schmoopie and her kids, hell, let’s throw in the other chump for good measure). Yeah, devastating betrayal after 24 years together, leading to our 13 year old refusing to see or speak to her own father, the pending reality of me and the kids losing our home and being unable to afford a new one on my own, wishing I could just fast forward the rest of my life and skip to the dying part… sure, FW, let’s all just sit down and have a nice cup of tea.
BTW, I told him to stick his “sorry” up her ar*e because I’m sure she likes that kind of thing. Ahem, clearly wasn’t feeling very tranquil that day or today.
“wishing I could just fast forward the rest of my life and skip to the dying part…”
I remember in the depth of despair thinking this very thing. Though I never wanted to die immediately, I remember the fast forward thought. I also remember thinking if I did off myself, he would say “See, I told you she was crazy”. Honestly, I doubt he ever told anyone I was crazy, too much evidence against it for me, he totally ephed up his life and everyone knew it. He was a lying jackass, but he was not stupid.
I luckily got past that within about three months after he left. Once we D’d, I never spoke but a couple words to him for the rest of his life. Distance helped that, and the fact that our son was fully emancipated when he left.
I can’t imagine how hard it is to deal with these AH’s while co-parenting.
It’s so reassuring to know that other chumps have had the same painful thoughts. Thank you. Like you, I knew I would never off myself because there’s no way I’d ever do that to my children, especially as it would leave my eldest having to live with the father she can’t stand. They deserve at least one sane parent!
He refuses to accept that his infidelity was abuse. If harming another person so deeply that they wish they could skip the rest of their life isn’t abuse, I don’t know what is.
In the depths of despair I just did not want to wake up to what seemed like a sudden horrific nightmare. Like you I knew my children would have nobody in their corner (narc ex in laws effectively abandoned them even though they’re the only grandkids) if I didn’t survive the trauma, I had to live for THEM.
I believe many of us felt similarly at some point. Thankfully I found CN and at least one ethical therapist who told me to run to a better future!
The really great thing is that he doesn’t have to accept it for it to be true anyway. Don’t fall into the trap of arguing with ignorance. It does not serve his narrative to accept, so he won’t.
Oh yes, civil. I was civil at the weddings of our adult children. For the sake of my children and all the guests. I was civil as I signed my divorce paperwork. I was civil as I collected my divorce settlement and I was civil while I restarted my life from scratch in my 60’s. Going forward, I have zero wish to be further civil to eX. Considering that he kept a secret life, ate cake, abused me while together, gaslit me after D day, lovebombed, DARVO’d, legally abused, failed to admit, apologize or seek forgiveness, continued to play the “sad pitiful” man whose wife left him for no reason, (and more), I am glad to report I care not a whit about civility. With teacup in hand and with an English accent, I declare, that eX can go F himself. Please and thank you.
The English accent really helps the delivery. 😉
It is a chump magnet to guilt to say we are unforgiving, uncivil.not nice, mean, not saying sorry to the cheater. All those words get to our chumps core which is who we are as determined by someone else who should not matter. There is not one cheater, wringing their hands over issues like future funerals, graduations, or BarMitvahs and concern over what YOU THINK. You there in the corner…you who I lied to forever.???? And chumps whom any cheater can coerce into feeling bad about everything. ..we are the Perfect vessel for cheater guilt. Push buttons via friends or foe. Even thousands of miles away. Why do they do it?
Cause it works.
We as chumps never got to make fully informed choices about our lives when we were in the Land of F*ckwit. I think your best friend did the right thing by letting you know that your ex contacted her husband to stir the pot; however, the gossiping about irrelevant details like what he said is unnecessary. Were these friends firmly your friends before during and after the divorce or do they try to play Switzerland and they want things to be less uncomfortable for them?
Consider your ex to be no different than a Tornado. The devastation he caused as an F5 tornado cannot be forgotten. He destroyed your marriage, your family, your home, your future, and your finances. Your entire world was split into a before and after, and you are doing your best to make the best of it, rebuilding where severe weather happens far less regularly. Your BFF “alerted” you to potential tornadoes in the area. Because you have lived through the worst of it before you didn’t necessarily need the alert to recognize the changes in the weather it just confirmed what you already were sensing.
“We as chumps never got to make fully informed choices about our lives when we were in the Land of F*ckwit.”
That is the worst horror of it. There were life altering decisions made based on what I thought was a solid marriage. I am sure he and whatever wh skan kore he was with at those times had a hoot laughing at how stupid I was.
Did not attend funeral of either of his sisters. Neither did the kids. In retrospect, we are all glad we chose as we did. We had better things to do with our time. You probably do, too.
Worried, you don’t have to go to the funeral. However, if you want to, you do need to be civil in the sense that you are polite and don’t berate FW, because a funeral is certainly not the place for holding his feet to the fire. What you do not have to be is friendly, which is probably what he means by civil. You can be polite, but cold. That would be my recommendation for how you should treat FWs in general if you have to deal with them. You don’t get into unnecessary conversations with them, even if it’s just small talk, and you never discuss anything personal. IOW, you give them public service grey rock. A bonus is that they hate it because they feel dismissed, which in fact they are. As you continue to practice it, you will find that they effect you emotionally less and less. Your FW sounds like a whiny little b*tch who gets all snowflakey about not being liked and approved of. Tough. He’ll just have to learn to live with it.
“Your FW sounds like a whiny little b*tch who gets all snowflakey about not being liked and approved of. Tough. He’ll just have to learn to live with it.“
Yup, if you don’t want to be treated like a FW, then don’t be a FW.
Words of gold.
Looks like I’m in the minority, but I’d rather be told what he’s saying about me.
Cheater assaulted me after the financial DDay and left me to deal with serious injuries as well as the discovery. If not for friends, I wouldn’t have known that he was systematically telling my friends that I was mentally unstable, brandishing a gun, and was a danger to anyone who approached me.
Years later, a couple told me he was again spreading lies about me. I was glad of the chance to tell them the truth.
As for seeing him in public, I walked into a funeral and a rather dashing older man invited me to sit at his table. Turned out he was quite well known in the circles cheater was trying to enter, and what’s more, cheater sat in the rows behind me, burning holes in my back. I never spoke to or acknowledged him.
Yes, I don’t think it’s bad the friend’s told her. I think the message wasn’t really for her but for them. FW is trying to convince them she’s unhinged. She was able to nip that in the bud by showing she’s not, if the friends didn’t already know. And now she knows what he’s probably saying to others, so if friends start acting skittish around her, she can say, “I’ve heard my ex is saying things about me to my friends. Has he done that with you?” Clear the air.
Also, it’s that age-old switcheroo: It’s not my lying and cheating that’s bad, the bad thing is that you might have a negative reaction to it.
I completely understand your stance, because I was also assaulted during the wreckonciliation and learned that FW was considering a fatal accident for me during the years of cheating. As a chump whose trauma involves physical endangerment, I would want to know if FW was ramping up smear campaigns or becoming increasingly unhinged. I also tell everyone the real reason why we divorced.
Sleeping with one eye open, while trying to Grey rock. I don’t have the luxury of following the 100% NC suggested here, because FW is an evil POS.
My house was sabotaged in multiple ways, and there is only one suspect. There’s no way to know if we’re safe, just ways to detect and prevent.
I recently discovered renewed attempts to hack my finances.
When dumped or disappointed about how his life is going, he lashes out at me, even though I went no contact quickly.
How à propos! Just last week my FW demanded of me that I treat her family with “courtesy and respect” and made vague threats about what would ensue if I failed to do so. (The “family” is the AP – now husband – and FW’s ire was sparked by my declining to waive my right of first refusal to let our child stay with him while she is traveling).
I was pissed off, drafted a snarky response in which I asked whether AP had treated my marriage and family with respect and courtesy, ran my response past AP’s ex-wife who reminded me that my response wouldn’t change their behavior one jot, and then deleted everything.
I recommend this as procedure for such a situation:
Good job! 👏
I just finished reading a new autobiography by a tv star who is now in her eighties. In it she mentions an event where her mother put a loaded gun near her sister’s mouth and threatened to shoot the sister. The ‘star’s’ take on this was: “Sister went to therapy but obviously not long enough. I guess therapy teaches you to not forgive your mother.”
I immediately thought of the RIC’s plea for (insistence on?) forgiveness, no matter what. I think my bottom would be, if someone put a gun to my mouth and threatened to shoot me, I would have no trouble not forgiving them!