How Do You Explain Divorce to Grandchildren?
She’s wondering how to explain divorce to grandchildren. Does she have to provide a reason for why Grandpa isn’t in the picture?
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Hi Chump Lady,
I hope that others, even if they haven’t been directly impacted by abuse, can understand how FWs pretend to be normal and suck us in to their dysfunction.
My question is:
How will you explain to your future grandchildren why you are no longer married to their grandfather?
I respect your advice to keep it age-appropriate. I also agree that you shouldn’t gaslight your children (and grandchildren).
Mary
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Dear Mary,
I can’t say this question has ever come up before. It’s one thing to explain the dissolution of your marriage to grandchildren you already have, because it affects the entire family structure. It’s quite another thing to imagine how you’d present a divorce to theoretical grandchildren of the future.
“Grandpa has a hooker habit” is probably off the table. You could always pass the buck and defer to your grandchildren’s parents for an explanation. But I think the bottom line when explaining adult matters to small children is keeping it age appropriate.
If this was long ago and they’re curious: “We got divorced in 1992.” If they come into the world and you’re already divorced, it’s just a fact of life. It’s not as if you’re missing an appendage. Or if it’s recent: “It’s sad. But I’m still your Grandma and I’m not going anywhere.” Or you can keep it vague, “Sometimes grown ups get divorced.”
Kids just generally want to be reassured that their world is still okay.
That you’re still going to be there at Christmas. Or you’re keeping your pet Schnauzer. Or you’re still attending their piano recital. I sincerely doubt they want the gory details of MeeMaw’s secret sexual basement.
Here’s what NOT to do:
- Don’t assume their relationship with their cheating grandparent is your responsibility.
- Don’t polish the message.
- Don’t internalize some idea that you need to be partnered to be a grandparent.
You’re only responsible for you.
It’s not your job to reassure the kids that the other grandparent still loves them. Or invite him to family gatherings, or whatever. Your cheater fired you from the job of managing their social calendar and doing for them. Just like there is sane parenting, there is sane grandparenting. You showing up in your grandchildrens’ lives says everything.
You’re not a PR agency.
I’m not saying slop your grief on minors and malign your ex. (Please don’t do that.) I’m saying you’re entitled to not mention this person at all or change the subject. And you certainly don’t have to bow to some Friends With Your Ex narrative for family cohesion. Actions have consequences. You don’t do that polish-the-turd work any more.
You can grandparent solo.
Actuarially speaking, most people do. In a sense, your cheater is dead. Dead to you, anyway. Your family is still your family, minus a FW.
I hope this helps. And as for my theoretical grandchildren? I’d like some real ones! Young adults, get on that STAT!
I’m a female chump. Raising minors.
In the age group of grandmas it’s very common to be widowed so I wouldnt even mention it unless they ask me. Young ones would likely simply assume my fiancé is grandpa.
What’s sad is the divorce from hell has made my daughter swear off marriage and kids. I may never be a grandparent thanks to FW narcopath.
But I’m heartened to see some of the younger generation is getting smarter (the ones not doing OnlyFans) about the patriarchy, toxic and abusive relationships, and women embracing the 4B lifestyle.
I’m sorry. Yes, my parents’ strained marriage for the last, say 6 years they were married, and my dad’s alcoholism and behavior toward me and my mom, made me swear off marriage. Although I never really wanted kids, even before all that. I know my mom didn’t understand that, and really wanted grandchildren, but no way was I risking passing along the crazy alcoholic genes.
Raising my hand for never being a grandmother. Although that’s the new normal, and when I ask my kids’ thirty-something friends about what is going on the vast majority cite not being able to provide for a family. Cannot meet housing, medical, educational, and food costs. Most of them – all college educated and holding at least one job (a few have side gigs) – are barely providing for themselves.
My kids are in their late 20’s, and I hear the same from them. One is in a serious relationship, but they are both children of divorce and are not rushing to marry. The other kid has dated some, but experienced a really bad relationship with someone with mental health and alcohol issues, making them very skeptical.
One of mine also says they never want to be married/have kids. She isn’t really a fan of kids anyway, she is a teen and finds babies messy and germy. lol As she is just a teen that could change, but maybe she is just truly uninterested in having kids. She didn’t play with baby dolls at all as a kid. So that part might just be part of her personality.
The marriage part though? I think that is absolutely a result of her witnessing what I went through. And it is more complicated than cheating, he was also just a nightmare to live with and she saw me look “stuck” with him. And the post separation abuse is also quite obvious. It’s made her not trust people in general.
She has time to grow up and change her mind on marriage and more importantly, to learn that some people can be trusted. To be honest, if she chooses not to get married, that’s ok too. But I would prefer it be because she made that choice for her own reasons and not because of what she saw with us.
I wish some organization would do a study on the impact of marriage or LTR with a cheater/narcissist and/or cheater/cluster B and the effect on the spouse and children. By that I mean financial, physical, emotional, psychological and relational. Because all this needs to be taken into consideration in the divorce. It needs to be simplified so that there is a formula that family court uses as a baseline to ensure there is parity in the distribution of assets. For example, I think if there is cheating, the division should be in favor of the innocent spouse, if there is emotional or physical abuse, then it increases by x amount. Parties would need to show evidence in court, but first there needs to be scientifc studies showing the full impact, followed by a formula for equitable distribution.
My lawyer told me about a woman whose husband would sit on her and put out his cigarettes on the soles of her feet, leaving her with scarring and permanent nerve damage. Yet the property was divided 50/50. The woman, a SAHM had to re-enter the workforce late in life, hobbling along painfully on her permanently damaged feet while it was life as usual for the abusive spouse. It is fundamentally unfair for the innocent spouse and children. We as a society need to address this.
These children who were witness to domestic abuse should be able to get therapy paid for by the abuser, if the childfen chose. It makes me so sad to see people forego the joys of parenthood (and later grandparenthood) as a result of the abuse they witnessed. These hideous Cluster B types do generational damage and in allowing them to slip the clutches of accountability and reparation, so does the court and legal system. I have lost all faith.
Maybe we at CN could put together and complete an anonymous survey for chumps, to help quantify the damage. What say you, CL?
As a victim, I can tell you that there’s a lot of comfort in knowing it stops with me. My father had 1 sibling, a brother who had 3 children, but, AFAIK, none of us are crazy alcoholics. So, hopefully, the genes end with me.
Yes to all this. I’m convinced that the family laws were written by cheaters and for cheaters. However just as it was once acceptable to employ children in dangerous factories, beat your wife et cetera, social change happens slowly. Chumps and the victim children need to start somewhere and what you propose is a good start!
I think that’s a great idea. Those stupid dating app surveys are given headlines as if polling established liars is actual science. Meanwhile there’s a lot of clinical support of the idea that victim-survivors tend to very credible witnesses and also often have nearly photographic memory of abuse incidents because their survival depended on being “sharp.”
Dr. Elizabeth Dalgado writes:
Survivors, no matter what you think you know about them, are actually bearers of outstanding epistemic authority. As Fricker noted with epistemic injustice, this means their insights are not merely anecdotes or emotions, but deep knowledge forged under such torturous conditions of sustained harm that they should be given a Victoria Cross for their ‘valour in the presence of the enemy’.
“…husband would sit on her and put out his cigarettes on the soles of her feet…”
And he is not in jail. Smh. As with the Epstein Files, our legal/political system has the attitude that “yeah, it’s wrong and illegal but whaddaya gonna do?”
I hope nobody decides to administer their own justice. If you know what I mean.
Vigilantism is never the answer. A more proper response would be for a society to decide “this is right, and this other thing is wrong, and we as a society will hold people accountable for doing the wrong thing”. In that way nobody has to administer their own justice, because the community would enforce its values. I don’t think that is going to happen here because our values have been corrupted by money and power. Maybe it has always been that way, but is just more front-and-center now.
It seems an overlooked contributor to population decline might be FWs. There are likely other factors as Erin Brockovich argued in an article for the Guardian titled “Plummeting Sperm Counts; Shrinking Penises: toxic chemicals threaten humanity.” But even environmentalists’ descriptions of how industry-captured regulators “cheat” by allowing chemical “adulterants” in food and environment that are ravaging human fertility sound like an analogy for what cheaters do. Whether physically or mentally, the young are being messed with.
As mothers, women can easily become financially dependent on their partners… while the men may only be willing to support them (and their children) as long as they are “sexually useful” (and more so than other, younger candidates). It’s scary, yet everyone in my childhood seemed to consider this perfectly fine and normal (“men have needs”, “younger bodies are simply hotter – that’s just nature” etc.). I always found this messaging to be extremely disconcerting. It’s one of the key reasons why I choose to remain single and childless.
Edit: I truly hope not everybody thinks like this. Yet, in my childhood, I was made to believe this attitude was super common. And many of those people claimed to be “good Catholics”!
I believe it.
Yep. My divorce from hell has made my kids think that marriage and kids are not a great idea. I have five children, and two of my daughters have told me that they definitely don’t want kids. I’m grandmother age and all my kids are adults, but I won’t be surprised if I never have grandkids.
I would like to add that once your grandchildren are old enough, please tell them (in a matter-of-fact way) why you divorced him, especially if he had been a cheater (which I assume, since you wrote to Chump Lady). I think it is very important for children to understand that this is a legitimate reason for divorce, and that it is perfectly possible to move on and be mighty afterwards.
Dear Mary:
Your grandkids are going to accept you as is, their loving granny, person always delighted to see them, reader of stories, baker of yummy things, gardener who shows them the magic of planting a seed and life springs forth from the earth. Having luckily missed any interaction with your FW, who is likely to not be part of their life just a peripheral part, they are very likely to never ask or wonder about him. If they do, simple and age appropriate response and then back to fun times with the kids.
BTW grandchildren are the best. You get to see your son or daughter move into the parent role, and the love you have for them reflected in their love for their children and your love of the kids…all the happiness and love is magnified. CL and CN I wish you all the joy of this experience.
This is a potentially tricky one, but I’d advise going with something that is suitable both for the context and the age of the grandchildren. It’s one thing to have to explain why Grandma/Granddad got divorced if the divorce occurred before the Grandchildren were born (AKA the “Dark Ages” as my kids would describe it), and another thing entirely if Grandma’s/Grandad’s marriage implodes in plain sight of Grandchildren old enough to have some idea (or indeed a very clear idea) of what is going on.
LFTT
My beloved grandma got divorced 20 years before I was born. The Catholic Church granted her an annulment in the 70s, so I can only imagine what a piece of work my grandfather must have been.
As a child I did not find his absence odd at all, it was simply normal. I’m sure I asked my parents why she wasn’t married, but don’t even remember the conversation. It was a non-issue. As an adult, I am so glad she got that man out of her house so she could live in peace.
I think CL’s aptly named Aunt Joy (of the singing walls: https://www.chumplady.com/the-walls-in-your-house-will-sing-2/) has a great model for how to convey the truth to subsequent generations: do everything you can to rebuild and create a beautiful, meaningful life and then eventually talk about the journey to get there with the younger set because, to quote one of my favorite poems, “who never knew the price of happiness will not be happy.”
In that formula, it’s not just the happy ending but the truth that is absolutely essential. Here’s the whole poem by Yevgeni Yevtushenko:
Lying to the young is wrong.
Proving to them that lies are true is wrong.
Telling them
that God’s in his heaven
and all’s well with the world
is wrong.
They know what you mean.
They are people too.
Tell them the difficulties
can’t be counted,
and let them see
not only
what will be
but see
with clarity
these present times.
Say obstacles exist they must encounter,
sorrow comes,
hardship happens.
The hell with it.
Who never knew
the price of happiness
will not be happy.
Forgive no error
you recognize,
it will repeat itself,
a hundredfold
and afterward
our pupils
will not forgive in us
what we forgave.
i’ve been pondering this for a while with a 2 year-old granddaughter and grandson on the way (12 years ago chumped and divorced). When either gchild asks me why Grandpa and Grandma are not married, I’m leaning towards saying something like: “when we were married, Grandpa did not keep a very important promise to be faithful, so I couldn’t stay married to him.” I will share this with my daughter (who gets it) and trust she’ll say what she feels most comfortable with too.
On a related note, mighty muscles are already strengthening…when one of the other toddlers pushes my granddaughter at daycare she says, stop! and walks away. 💪🏽
My grandchildren didn’t come until about 3 to 5 years after we had D’d.
It was pretty natural. When they were too young to understand I was just Grandma, and my H was just grandpa. When they were old enough to ask questions, I just answered them with the basic truth that I was the biological grandma, and grandpa was grandpa by marriage. But, we were both good to them, and he treated them as his grandchildren from their birth, just as I treated his as mine from birth (I still do).
I don’t know how my ex and O whore wife treated it, nor did I care. I know that when they were old enough to understand my daughter in law had had it with their behavior and told the kids that he had not treated me well. I didn’t ask for specifics. I figured they would judge me and my H on our actions; and we were good to them, and to their mom and dad. That is all I could do.
I was paternal grandma who my daughter in law trusted more than her own mom. Her mother had abandoned her to her grandma when she was 7, so that was a troubled relationship.
Neither of them trusted paternal grandpa and his wife to take care of the grands long term. So when they needed help to go on a vacation, or special event; I saved my leave so that I could be available when needed. It worked out fine, I had leave to visit and also leave to help them when needed.
She was a stay at home mom, so it worked out well.
I am fortunate enough post FW to have been given the blessing of a granddaughter. My limited experience has been that the child’s parents should be the primary source of the narrative to their children. confer with them but stepping outside the bounds of what they want for their children put you in the persona non grata situation. And this applies to most things when it comes to grandchildren, if you want to be present in their lives.
Yep, I’ve stepped on land mines and I have not been appreciated…especially if parents love Grandpa too. Your advice is sound.
One set of grandparents divorced long before my parents met (and long before WW2, so it was a while!). The other set of grandparents were married until the untimely death by heart attack of my grandfather. I have vague memories of being with a babysitter during the funeral.
Anyway, here are my impressions.
I never asked why I had no grandfathers in the family. My nana and my gramma were sufficient for my child mindset. Other kids might have them. I did not. They were just not part of my world view. My grandparents were complete in and of themselves. The takeaway from this is that you are complete in yourself.
If FW is part of your children’s lives, he will feature in a grandparent role, but the two of you don’t have to be in the grandparent role at the same time. My paternal grandmother and my maternal grandmother were rarely in the same place at the same time. They lived in different parts of the country and, looking back, probably didn’t have a lot in common.
The takeaway is that you are the grandmother. The question of where is grandfather will possibly not even arise. If your ex-FW is still alive and still part of your children’s lives, then the grandchildren may see him, but from their children’s perceptions, grandmother and grandfather are not a couple.
If they ask you, just say, “oh, that was a long time ago.” Then move onto the more important tasks, like choosing a coloring book.
This reminds me of advice I got when answering children’s questions about sex:
Answer like you’d answer an IRS agent: Answer only the question asked.
If asked where babies come from, say they develop in the mommy’s body, but you don’t have to say how the baby got in there unless asked. Children will ask what they are ready to hear.
Even so, when my daughter eventually asked how babies got in there and I told her, her reaction was, “Oh, God, I wish I hadn’t asked.” 😆
Like others, I don’t think a divorce that’s a done deal from before they were born will even come up. Divorce and all kinds of families and family configurations are such a common part of a child’s world these days. If they ask what happened, it’ll be when they are teens or older.
The first time my 6 yr old granddaughter asked where her granddad was, I was unprepared. It was an unexpected drop-in in the early days – a welfare check as it were! She asked me ‘where’s Granddad Nick?’ I just said ‘he doesn’t live here anymore.’ I didn’t really know what else to say. She said ‘Why not?’ I just said ‘because he doesn’t want to.’ And as the tears pricked in my eyes she said ‘oh’ and gave me a big hug. I said ‘yes. I feel very sad about it.’ And that was it.
I guess it depends on their age, but she was young and just accepted the simple facts. Her mum said she’d answered her questions quite simply later – just simple things she wanted to know. I think sometimes we can over complicate it.
I have 8 grandchildren. Even though I was divorced before they were born they have all asked at one time or another why the divorce? I’ve stumbled, I’ve sugar coated, I’ve said too much, I’ve said nothing except saying we could talk about it later. Now after 15years I think I have an answer I’m happy with. -…- “I felt disrespected so it was best to part ways.” I think it’s only a matter of time before the older ones ask for more information. I’ll tell my story one day. Till then “disrespected” will do.
Sadly with a history of two cheaters..one bio and one step grandpa, its been tricky. Only one grandson,age 12 at the time of divorce and now 15..wants details of both. My 18 year old granddaughter asks nothing. I let the parents to do of the talking and only explained betrayals using Starwar analogies which worked by referring to aliens disguised as humans that board the star ship. My grandson wants more. I told him he’ll have to wait until he is 18 with parents permission. My other 3 grandchildren are under 5 and I’m not telling them anything as their mom is daddy’s girl and so it will be up to her. It’s complicated but I don’t borrow tomorrow’s trouble for today..it’s hard enough with life as it is. Go forth and live mighty ..grandparent or parent. If you’re at peace, they will be fine.
Fully agree- they can make the excuses and tell lies if they like while we just love the little ones and live our lives .
Well I won’t tell my Little Fox Cub that grandad is a cheating abusive mofo who along with ‘grandma’ Triffid greatly messed up his Aunty and Uncle’s lives- that’s why Amma will never speak to grandad on pain of death.
Hopefully he won’t ask because this Amma would rather not have that discussion- and I don’t want to sparkle it up with some incompatibility grown apart BS either.