He Just Used Her ‘for Relief’
Her husband explained his latest affair as — he used the Other Woman “for relief”. The Friday Challenge is to share your stupid, cheater coping mechanism excuses.
***
Dear Chump Lady,
I just had my umpteenth D-Day (five? seven?) with my wonderful husband, care partner, lover, dear friend. He is an important part of my family.
But it always comes down to: He just used her for “relief”.
Which makes me so sad for his other woman. (How could I possibly hate someone who hates herself even more than I apparently hate myself?) Puts both of us in the category of being a sexual implement — different purposes, different delivery.
I don’t expect/want an answer to my letter. My questions don’t have answers. To tell the whole truth, it feels right to go into retirement as a single person. I fit in better with my demographic, not to mention my own introverted temperament. But God DAMN, he’s a good dancer.
Thanks for being there for those of us who would otherwise make the mistake of blaming ourselves.
Keyboardsavant
***
Dear Keyboardsavant,
I fervently hope you do go into retirement as a single person. And if your cheating husband becomes indignant at a divorce summons, reply: “I needed relief.”
There are other more worthy dance partners. And frankly, I’d rather waltz with a grizzly bear than spend my life with someone who treats women like disposable cum tissues.
He needs relief? Send him to a robotic milker. You know, like they have at those high-end dairy farms. Cows just wander up, get serviced, lumber off.
Problem solved.
Your letter, however, has provided an instructive Friday Challenge. Stupid cheater coping mechanism excuses.
We’ve all heard them. Hey, it was stress relief! It didn’t mean anything. (But it’s also a secret and you can’t ask about it… ) Don’t you care about their HAPPINESS?
TGIF.
I have heard every excuse and every hollow promise of “never again” more times than I can admit without embarrassment. His current mantra is “this is fixable if you would just look forward instead of backward.” Huh ? Yes, he is still seeing his AP of several years , but he feels entitled to keep his options open since I won’t commit to taking him back.His relationship(s) outside of our marriage were and are all my fault for not seeing all of the good in him.
OMG that looking forward phrase became a cudgel he’d figuratively beat me over the head with during the false reconciliation.
Decades of lying, cheating and 7 figure marital asset theft? Why am I fixated on that and asking questions, instead of looking FORWARD? It’s all my Chumpy fault according to FW.
Thank God I am divorced from that narcopath!
I’m doing all the things with her that I wanted to do with you.
I’m happily single and retired living my best life. The future faking landed AP in central Florida, in a55+ park with all residents in their 80’s. Too broke to move yet suddenly sad sausage complaints roll in.
The kids (then 11, 16 and 18) discovered a load of texts between Ex-Mrs LFTT and her AP, because Ex-Mrs LFTT’s iPhone was synched to an iPad that our youngest daughter used. Ex-Mrs LFTT’s excuse was simply that “None of the stuff mentioned in the texts actually happened, it was just all a running joke between myself and an old boyfriend.” She then refused to discuss the texts further on the grounds that the information was personal and therefore none of my business.
I guess that you could call it “gaslighting” but I prefer the term “barefaced lies.”
LFTT
Never understood why I need to pin this person to the wall with the truth when their behavior surrounding their denying it and living in dissonance is enough. The fact that they think they “win” when you can’t Sherlock Holmes them with an eloquent explanation of their deceit is bonkers. What exactly do they win? And what exactly do we chumps win when we can’t get them dead to rights? The surrounding suckage of the situation is plenty to give the whole thing a big no thank you.
I discovered to my horror that FW had been a pathological liar for decades and perhaps his entire life. Big lies small lies and unnecessary lies even. There’s no understanding this if you are not a pathological liar yourself.
Just run, RUN from the crazy
I want to send someone at Apple 3 dozen roses! That’s EXACTLY how I caught my cheater. His iPhone synched to the iPad and our 9 year old brought it to me. Otherwise all of his secrets and lies would have gone on indefinitely and I would have continued to feel crazy. I think about it all the time. It was exactly a year ago that this happened and if the universe hadn’t done me that solid I’d still be miserable. Now my ex and all of his creepy cheating friends use WhatsApp. And if you notice, the new ad campaign for that company is about guaranteed privacy. Ugh.
Sending you a heart. I have the same story.
I had her handwritten note to herself about a rendezous with an AP and read it outloud in front of marriage counselor. Her response? “That doesn’t prove anything!” Yeah, sure. But why are the veins on your face popping out and your face is beet red?
Lie, lie, lie.
It’s funny, “that doesn’t prove anything”. Well maybe if this was a murder case we would need more to get a conviction. But this isn’t a murder case and in most states in the US (not sure of stats for other countries) infidelity doesn’t matter to the divorce unless marital funds were compromised. All that to say, *I* have never had an extramarital affair and *I* don’t have notes about AP rendevous laying around my house.
They are so worried about what you can and can’t prove..but they KNOW what they did. It is so disingenuous.
They lie as they breathe it’s second nature to these reptile people
Oh wow, I think that line comes from page 73 of the Cheater’s Guide!!! Some of my personal favorites that my exFW used included:
The list goes on but it is still cheater speak. Hopefully Keyboardsavant will get out! I did and I was near retirement. I got a great settlement and was able to retire this year. It is awesome without an entitled FW around! All I can say is that nobody should live what time remains in life with a FW.
Hoo boy howdy… Fickwits sure do delve deep.into their creative trick bags when coming up with the dumbest excuses and pathetic justifications to deflect, minimize and turn blame back on to the poor Chump.
My ex-wife also tried the old chestnut of it’s possible to love two.people simultaneously.while we were in a joint counseling session ( what a waste of time and money that was!). The therapist shot that down with a forceful ( No it’s not).
I was also regaled with the truly asinine ” You weren’t supposed to find out”, ” You weren’t able to give me the deep appreciation for my medical skills that he does) although I think what her surgeon AP appreciated in my RN wife was very different skill set altogether. Then there was ” I had sex with him to help.him fall asleep.in the on-call room, he’s so exhausted after being on call for twenty four hours”.
What truly made me doubt my ex-wife s sanity was “I know you’d appreciate him, if you knew him.like I know him” to which I replied that I had no intention of assuming whatever position she had contorted into, in order to know him better…this was a lead up to suggesting he’d be a really good specialist for my chronic autoimmune condition because” he listens well, is empathic well and has gentle soft hands”..I nearly.lost it when that came out of her.mouth.
Soon after DDay I was treated to ” You’re always angry, depressed or.subjecting me to an endless inquisition on what I did”. Well Geez I wonder why!
There were so.many.more specious, hilarious or cruel comments over the next three years, that it baceme so.much easier to see how to escape the pain and insanity of it all.
Mine was similar. Straight from Ester Perel’s cheating “reasons”.
Monogamy is not naturalYou can love more than one person at the same time.He thinks it is right and good to tell your “friends” you love them.He needs sexual variety.We had only been with each other and he wanted the chance to be with someone else.There weren’t good options for swinging in our city.She is caring and so much like him and his mother. (I really didn’t like his mother and tolerated her until she died.)She has a PhD and understands the academic life like him.She has friends.She likes to do adventurous activities. (They met on a Grand Canyon rafting trip he organized in early April (cold water and he knows I don’t like cold water but he enjoys it??? *eyeroll* “You don’t like doing hard things”. Me and our two young children were not invited but his brother was and old friends were.)I ended up doing a lot of hard things after D-Day that he didn’t do. Therapy, crying, selling my house, filing for divorce and fighting with him for basic decency, betrayal trauma for his unapologetic behavior, him spending time with AP and our kids within weeks of the affair starting. Countless other emotional hard things he avoids.
He has no problem doing things he wants to do while knowing it will hurt people. You are the problem for having a problem with it.
They suck
“She is like him and his mother.” Wow, they don’t listen to themselves, do they?
The judgment also checks. Yours judged you for not being into hardy adventures and thus lesser. Mine judged me for enjoying carbs and not being an exercise anorexic. He has found the church of CrossFit and I was a lowly heathen.
All this is so familiar. My FW also hasn’t been with anyone but me and felt he missed out on “sowing wild oats”. In fact, I saw him reading an awful book with that title around the time he first stepped out on the marriage. Told me that first cheating didn’t feel any better than masturbation and wasn’t worth it. Then proceeded to test that theory again. Just to be sure, I guess. Also didn’t want to do anything hard after separation and was surprised at any consequences. Im still going through it with trial set for March. I’m exhausted but one day it will be over and I will be FW free. I’ve come to understand that he is a shallow person capable only of appreciating shallow gifts. It’s like we are different species and my depth and gifts, while real, just don’t register on his value system (like we humans can’t hear a dog whistle). This logic frees me from trying to make him see my worth or what he lost.
“My FW also hasn’t been with anyone but me and felt he missed out on “sowing wild oats”. ”
Mine *had* sowed a good amount of oats by the time we met. But not as many as he probably could have as a young, good looking guy around the big city. Then once he hit his early 40s, he told me he realized that he was never going to look better than he did right then, and that at some point ED could be an issue. (It wasn’t yet and I don’t know or care if it is now) It really came across to me like he realized he could have had so many more women pre-marriage than he had, and any chance of making up for that would pass if he didn’t act quick.
Ironically, he had one long term affair where the plan was to be together forever, it ended, he got into anoyhjer serious relationship as soon as he found someone suitable, and then did the same thing when that ended. If what you want is a sex buffet, why are you seeking your next wife?
It is pure insanity.
“I’ve come to understand that he is a shallow person capable only of appreciating shallow gifts. It’s like we are different species and my depth and gifts, while real, just don’t register on his value system (like we humans can’t hear a dog whistle). This logic frees me from trying to make him see my worth or what he lost.”
Yes! This! 👏👏👏
“Casting pearls before swine” is what comes to mind. Chumps are high value pearls wasted on FW and best for us to be out of the muck
I think mine is typical for women that cheat but I will tell it anyway. She said she needed his attention. – Love Bombing. She said that she knew she had to have sex with him to keep it coming. No pun intended.
She’s unintentionally confessing to a pathological need for external validation which is the hallmark of a narcissistic personality disordered person.
Count your blessings you’re rid of her.
These are the people who don’t understand that the shiny wears off of everything eventually, but don’t understand that this includes their “wonderful” selves too. So it must be a you problem.
Sheesh, so crazy.
When I asked why he’d lied to me about his secret sexual world, he told me: “I didn’t tell you because I thought you’d never find out about it.”
That is one of the few thing he told me that I believe to be true.
Oh I’d forgotten that one. What a head spin.
Mine said something similar. That she thought to herself, before doing it, what’s the harm if he never finds out?
When therapist was trying to elicit an answer on why he had a secret sexual basement. “My sister and brother got music lessons but I didn’t…” Said in a weepy voice, followed by his CSAT asking him if that made him feel “less than” which resulted in tears in his eyes at how wrongly he was treated….
Well, at least I learned what was to blame. Snort! Apparently kazoo lessons would have resulted in his becoming a man of integrity and saved my marriage.
Was pissed when I pointed out that he got martial arts classes and they did not.
Sadly, it turned out that he didn’t just feel inferior…he actually was inferior.
In the words of Cheaty McLiarface, “I enjoyed, and was attracted to her happy disposition and it felt good to talk with her and get a break from work.”
Translation: Reality awaited me at home in the form of my wife and young child. She had expectations of me that she believed that I was working hard to meet when I was really doing pretty much what I wanted to do. I really was happy with her as long as she made her needs small and made me look like a stellar husband and father. When my manipulation tactics started to be less effective the cognitive dissonance it created in her changed her attitude and she could be critical at times. At first it wasn’t a problem for me because it just reinforced my entitlement. I deserved to “feel good” by seeking validation from other women. Eventually she realized that I hadn’t been fiscally responsible to the family or emotionally loyal to her and she tried to hold me accountable. I still can’t understand why she doesn’t see that it wasn’t my deceptive manipulation and “one foot out the door” syndrome that destroyed our relationship. It was her critical and negative behaviors. If only she hadn’t (seen behind my mask) changed.
I will definitely be going into retirement as a single person.
OMG were you inside the twisted mind of my narcopath ex?
Because that’s EXACTLY how he saw it, himself as the victim, despite all objective evidence to the contrary. I made him look so good in a way that he never deserved.
Oh yeah… It’s the I did this to you, but it’s your fault because you were reacting appropriately to something terrible in which you didn’t exactly know what happening because I never exactly told you and it made me even sadder, lonlier, wah wah wah. Holy DARVO, Batman!
Is “I used her” really an excuse or rather an admission of who they are and what they are capable of?
100% this. It’s a look behind the mask.
FW in my case called the AP “Human Prozac” right after D-day when he was trying to rationalize that his secret day drinking, chronic porn use, emotional abuse and gaslighting during his affair and the affair itself stemmed from “suicidal depression” that, of course, I had somehow caused in him based on vague charges.
But then, oops, he immediately did a 180 and angrily denied ever saying that since his favorite coercion tactic up to that point had been accusing me of being an “unfit parent” due to my supposed mental instability and possible “suicidality” (um, huh? That time I cried really hard? The situational insomnia and abuse-related weight loss?). I think he wanted to retain the option to use that claim again in the future in case he needed to terrorize me by weaponizing custody but it would hardly work if he labeled himself suicidal.
But one thing that was always clear is that I didn’t “drive” him to suicidal ideation. If he actually fell that far down the abyss, he did it to himself. Or else he was merely projecting some subconscious awareness that he was doing things to me that would logically drive anyone to the brink.
But I no longer really care which is the case. If it weren’t for the fact that my kids depend on FW’s income or the fact that it would darken the kids’ lives if their dad offed himself, I no longer care whether he was once genuinely suicidal or not. It could be true and untrue at the same time like everything else involving abusive people who lack cohesive character and “core selves,”
I just sort of reason that abusers’ core selves are like computers with faulty WiFi connections. Basically, abusers beliefs, self images, feelings and capacity for love erratically come in and fade out so that, in the end, you have no idea what’s real or who they really are.
And they probably don’t know either. But before that sounds like a sad sausage alibi, I think it’s the exact reason they can be so diabolically credible in convincing prospective victims and bystanders of their harmless good intentions. But just like like a laptop with a terrible Bluetooth connection is worse than useless and can even be disastrous for people who depend on consistent web access for various critical personal and professional reasons, a partner whose capacity for love and empathy randomly comes and goes can be dangerous as well.
“Human Prozac”
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God, that’s horrible.
It’s actually a bit apt since she was, in fact, a pill. In exchange for Pornhub reenactments, she gobbled up about $30k of my kids’ college funds in bar tabs alone and then apparently wished me dead even though she’d never met me.
regarding suicidality, the narcs love to dominate that narrative as well – you can’t even briefly feel like giving up (which frankly any normal person would experience living with a fraud), and for god sake’s don’t mention you feel bad, or anything at all, because that must be replaced by their superior emotions and brush with the abyss. My ex was suddenly revealing he had spent his childhood sitting near a gunsafe, in fact he was sitting next to it right now (in his old family home now his brother’s house with the the wife and kids in the next room, I’m really sure they let him in and said help yourself to a cup of tea and a gun), after I mentioned in a text not currently feeling that great a week after D Day. He had never mentioned this traumatic childhood or feeling so poorly the whole time i had known him. All fake rubbish of course, I am sure some of them eventually pull it off pardon the pun.
In your experience, did the competition and one-up-manship also extend to actual illness, not just the blues? FW in my case threw massive, dramatic tantrums and went into rhapsodies of self-pity any time the kids or I were genuinely sick.
Of course – i think the one time I did try to leave was in the days following my daughter shattering her elbow. First the old duffer drove us to hospital but somehow missed the entrance to ER and kept driving. My daughter was holding her elbow together but i thought maybe poor old dad was panicking. After she and i returned home from hospital a day or two later with not much sleep (he was well rested he went home after dropping us off) i put a few loads of washing in dryer and his contribution was to come charging inside, confiscate the dryer and lecture me about using the clothesline before taking it down to his mother’s house to hide it from me. I realised after we separated it had nothing to do with any excuse I had made but was part of a pattern of jealousy if there was any attention on anyone but him for all sorts of reasons. I think I already told y’all here about the leprosy story in India so won’t go on again but jeez how many red flags was he waving. Gotta love mediocre losers. It was common for my DV clients to describe illness or post natal period as a time when callousness escalated. I remember one lady saying she was lying on bathroom floor in pain from some serious illness and hubby stood over her smirking.
You should read Zawn’s posts they are very insightful.
My jaw would be on the floor at how appalling your ex’s behavior was… except I’ve been there. The day I took a last second flight to see my dying father and landed too late, within five minutes of my hearing my father had died, FW was screaming at me on the phone about having to take the kids along to the dump by himself.
He did a muffled hiss-shout version of this in the maternity ward the day one of our kids was born by c-section because intuition woke me up at 4am knowing it was time to nurse. He was enraged that I woke him and asked him to go to the nurse’s station to get our newborn so I trundled my post-major-surgery self down the hall just as our son was waking.
I remember how all the nurses cooed over FW because he’d actually change diapers… with an audience. But a month later, the same baby pooped on his pants in a cafe when we were hanging out with my coworker pals. FW cursed loudly, gruffly handed the baby to me, shot to his feet and stormed angrily out of the cafe to go home to change, leaving me there with a newborn and my shocked workmates.
And many other similar events over the years in reaction to my being sick or injured or the kids being sick or injured. If it hadn’t been a felony to tape people without their knowledge in that region, I think it would have helped me shake off captor bonding/possum paralysis if I had been able to secretly record scenes like that as a reality check for myself and others.
Though I was typically too shell-shocked in the moment to gauge how objectively scary he might have looked and sounded, I think video recordings would have clearly showed that he was signalling “violent capacity” as a terror tactic. And just his knowledge that I possessed evidence like this probably would have made him way less contentious if I’d split back when I was at my most vulnerable with three kids with health issues and severe allergies under four.
I think that’s the real takeaway of all our collective experiences with being abused while ill or in crisis is that the degree of abusers’ coercion naturally increases proportionate to victims’ perceived vulnerability.
Exactly they are all cut from the same cloth just different manifestations. Twats.
OMG you crack me up. Since you’re in Australia (?), I’m not sure if you’re pronouncing twat similarly to the Brits with the short a (as in cat) or the equally funny schwa sound (as in what) or the not quite as hilarious broad a (as in father) that we use in the states.
To get the full comedic effect, I need a little linguistic guidance lol.
I personally go with twat/cat, twat/what is a bit of a posh version, twaaart/father with our accent would make me sound like I was having some sort of medical episode. Dawn French spoke about this issue in detail on Australian 60 Minutes.
OMGarsh, Dawn French:
“What is better than laughing? I can’t even think of anything to be honest. I know how much I have loved the people who make me laugh. So even if I have one hundredth of that affection from anyone else, I would be very grateful for it.” <3
He dropped you and your daughter off at the ER and left you there? OMG. The only good reason I can come up with for that is if there was another child at home that had to be cared for.
And what’s wrong with using a dryer? And he confiscated it??? Sounds like a complete nut.
Hahaha he was and is a nutter. Towards the end he basically tried to confiscate the washing machine due to “too many loads” with three kids etc. None of which he did until he decided one time he would dramatically bundle up the washing into garbage bags and speed off down the road to the local laundromat. God knows where he went but he came home hours later with the washing. He had enablers though, they all do, including for most of it my dad who thought he was a top bloke but then even dad thought he was off the rails in the end when he went crawling around the lawn one day dramatically scraping a few stray lawn clippings that dad and I had left when we mowed the yard. “I’m a perfectionist” he exclaimed to his two servants whose work wasn’t up to scratch (bizarrely after we separated he said he knew how much I loved him when he saw me watching him that day hard at work out the window when actually I was looking at him thinking maybe I needed to call the men in the white coats). I dont really peg my clothes out these days in fact got rid of the good old aussie hills hoist clothesline and use an airer and the dryer – some bloke came with an angle grinder chopped down the clothesline and drove off with it into the sunset.
“It could be true and untrue at the same time like everything else involving abusive people who lack cohesive character and “core selves,”
I just sort of reason that abusers’ core selves are like computers with faulty WiFi connections. Basically, abusers beliefs, self images, feelings and capacity for love erratically come in and fade out so that, in the end, you have no idea what’s real or who they really are.
…a partner whose capacity for love and empathy randomly comes and goes can be dangerous as well.”
Brilliant!
Not sure if it’s brilliant or just being a chump from a very young age and ultimately figuring I should at least make use of time in captivity to study the enemy. It’s sort of like getting your JD while in prison lol.
When I was in Japan recently, I saw sex toys marketed as “stress relief” products. If that fuckwit just wanted relief he was a trip to Spencer Gifts away (they still have those, I checked!)
Her biggest excuse was that she wanted more friends outside of me (I did start to find it odd over the years that she seemed to cycle through friends, told me not to interact with certain of her college friends I was friendly with almost at random-got really weird when people she used to work with started working with me and told me to “be careful” around them). It was one of those “at face value she has a point”-I had my own friend circles that I cultivated and spent time with, my own codependency be damned.
Hindsight being 20/20 she has an avoidant personality. She was the type that would prefer to start over or “get a new one” rather than fix or maintain the one she had-be it phones, jobs, or people. I was going through a rough patch and needed more support; she was also in the blitz period of her grad program when the fuckwittery got bad (well, bad to worse if we are being honest).
There is that clinical part of me that wonders if that was how she coped (maladaptive coping is still coping, see also: addiction) with that period of her life. I famously do not recall much of that stretch of my education other than weird little PTSD-like flashbacks to something that happened at my internship or something said in a classroom.
My clinical empathy brain notwithstanding-that still did not give her license to do what she did. She was a gym membership or a painting class away from achieving the same stress relief. For somebody that regularly complained that she was a “grown ass woman” she never seemed to be able to handle her business like an adult(and I have the shredding receipt to prove it!)
Have a Fuckwit Free Friday!
FW would sometimes run into my friends in town and tell them I was too busy with the kids to visit with. Then he’d never tell me he ran into them and wouldn’t pass on their messages or invitations. They believed him and stayed away. Meanwhile I thought people were avoiding me.
The inability to maintain close and true friendships over time is pointing towards some sort of personality disorder? FW also tried to sh*t talk some of our friends in order to isolate me. Made up stories about them calling me a beeyotch behind my back for instance.
Yep, that was deliberate.
“Wonderful people don’t screw around with married people, and wonderful married people don’t screw around.”
– Dr Frank Pittman
I do not want to enable myths about the definition of “wonderful” to go unchallenged.
(I’m assuming the writer’s description of her husband as “ wonderful husband, care partner, lover, dear friend” is sincere.)
There is nothing wonderful, caring, loving, or friend-like in this man’s behavior according to my understanding of what those adjectives mean.
I found it essential and incredibly important in my recovery be accurate when assessing the character of my former so-called husband.
Check out Jillian Turecki on social media. She’s an excellent resource for learning what the characteristics of healthy relationships are.
❤️
I had to take some time to really think about this. I guess that means I’m closer to Tuesday?
My ex told me he wanted to do stuff that it would seem wrong to do with me as he viewed me as more “pure” or something. (I initiated sex 99% of the time.) Just made me roll my eyes even then.
Reminds me of this old 80s film I saw on cable once titled “Maria’s Lovers” about a guy who becomes pathologically avoidant of having sex with his beautiful, virtuous new bride and basically abandons here.
The film is a bit schmaltzy in places but has some interesting performances and great cinematography.
See my comment about this. I was told the same that there are certain things men should not do with their wives so it’s ok to go find someone else to do these things with. And it’s not cheating! I get the impression this came from Esther Perrel.
When his “emotional” affair (later confirmed to be one of dozens of physical affairs) was revealed, I asked the typical chump question what she had to offer that I did not. His response: “You know that blow pops are my favorite candy and you’ve never once bought me blow pops. When she and I were at Target, she remembered I love blow pops and put a bag in the cart. For the first time, I felt truly seen.” (At the time, she was 19. He was 47.)
So after they got Blow Pops at Target, did they go back to the trailer park, drink two boxes of Franzie with her sister/aunt and get matching hog tatts?
LOL! No, they went back to my house with my then-8 year old and 8-month old and probably did nasty things in front of my children before I got home that night from a business trip. But thank you for the laugh!
I’m sure you were finding wads of gum and strands of nylon hair extensions around the house for weeks. 😛
Definitely, as I cleaned and packed up the house to sell to pay off his debts. Worth it in the end (8 years out) but yeah, those 6 months were NOT fun!
What strikes me about these stories is how juvenile these creatures are. For instance, of all the things that FW in my case did, what brought on the most ire from my friend’s husband– one of those stalwart, salt of the earth types who no one ever messes with– was that FW would secretly be playing video games in his home office at times we were all tiptoeing around him thinking he was slaving under deadlines. My friend’s husband was appalled that he was “up there getting out of husbanding, fathering and chores but not really working.”
Jesus effin’ Christ, really?!?! What a child. What an absolute child.
Oh my! How ridiculous is that?? Gotta buy him blow pops, huh?
She was blowing more than just bubbles.
Mine was a serial cheater, and he tearfully told me that he didn’t know why he couldn’t stop cheating. He just liked the feeling of having a crush on someone and knowing that they wanted him too. He said that he had low self esteem. 🙄
While that might be the case, he also held you in low esteem, not ok. It’s not about you, it’s a void in him. A constant need for validation. And people like that have no business getting into committed relationships, they are not capable of having them. Their partners and kids become collateral damage to their “low self esteem”.
I got that too. The timeline he gave me was probably bogus/missing additional time, but there were a couple majors moves along the way. I asked why he didn’t stop when we moved from x place to y place and his answer was a tearful “I don’t know.” They certainly don’t, and them not knowing or being befuddled by their own continued shitty behavior isn’t a reason for you to stick around and help them (probably not) figure it out.
Narcissist lack of insight. Mine had/has it too. He has no past or future so I too should just move on in the eternal now when people just do things in the moment. No idea why, it just happens.
Following over a year of discard, where I thought the FW had a brain tumour because his behaviour and moods were so off (many of us here have been down that route hey), he admitted to a ‘distraction’. Yes his howorker was a ‘distraction’. Lord knows what he needed distraction from, me I guess being a loving, caring wife of 35 years. Anyhoo this was over 5 years ago and I am so at meh it’s unreal. Living my best life I am. For any newbie here believe me meh comes to you x
One man told me that lots of men have sex with other women because “there are certain things you should not do with your wife.”
And because they need different experiences. And that these things are not cheating so nothing wrong with it.
So my response is why get married then? Were these things ok with the woman before you got married? Once married, you don’t do certain things? So you can’t explore things sexually with your wife?
What bullshit!
I think he meant there are certain things men shouldn’t do TO their wives. Because wives can give police real names and social security numbers.
Dear not- Savant…though you are writing here, there is Chump in you but not CHUMP. You are a VOLUNTEER who is brilliant enough to Stop the madness and get out of your TLC for an arrogant and ENTITLED CHEATER. No advice from me 2x .it’s the art the pure art form of multiple lovers all wanting to be center stage with a diligent creep. No one likes to hear that but I gave my 2nd cheater 10 days with him saying..he hopes l had learned my lesson on how to service him properly. It’s you bad and her coming up. Just STOP THE MADNESS…It’s so dehumanizing for you…you are playing with someone who USES YOU SAVE YOURSELF. CHUMPX2 OVER AND OUT
“I had to do it because I just have so much love to give!”
Serial predator cheaterface at the time had been completely neglecting me to the point I didn’t even feel like I existed in her world.
Oh yeah the whole using an affair as medicine. They are unhappy with some aspect of their life. May not even be you. Maybe its their job, their commute, their medical issue, ect., and of course they are gonna blame you for something. They are unhappy, negative people deep down. Unable to have a true loving relationship, its all smoke and mirrors. They are deeply disturbed, mentally ill, unstable, Personality disordered, sociopaths, psychotic, abusive. Take your pick, but they are not normal like you and I. They pick us because we are kind, loving, fixers who bond and want to help them and take care of them. Yes we are a bit naive and dont see through their façade. Again, why we get chosen. Mine actually said this to me at one point. He liked that I was naive. Well I am not anymore! Thanks to him I view everyone through suspicious lenses.
These AP have no idea. They think this person is normal and really likes them. Their one twu luv. And of course they talk smack about their spouse. My spouse is ungrateful, not interested, no sex, no attention, Im staying for the kids, shes unstable and will off themselves if I leave, blah, blah, blah. The AP is naive too, a bit dumb( you have to be to believe the bad marriage BS), a bit desperate(these people are not successful in relationships), and a bit selfish A-holes(to be willing to get involved with married people). FW told 15 year younger colleague mentee that horrible wife was ungrateful and never said thank you. Who knows what he told the other work colleague AP about me, who cares? They are both older women who never married or had kids. They are both selfish and are in a selfish profession, which by its nature attracts people who like to argue and who like conflict. Who knows if they ever realized that they both had Affairs with the same mutual colleague at work? I wouldn’t be surprised if they knew. Things like that dont bother these people. They are off their rockers. Again, unable to have normal relationships with normal people. The cheaters cast around like attention whores, giving people attention. The ones who bite are the ones they pursue. There are plenty of people who they try for, and FW pissed off a woman in the same profession and her husband with his attention. She wasn’t interested she had a happy marriage.
I’ve been told by one man I was seeing it’s not cheating if you pick someone up in a bar or only have sex with them one time. Hence it’s ok to go to prostitutes, etc. Cheating only applies if you see them multiple times because then you have a relationship with them.
So to him monogamy meant that yes you are the main person I am with but it’s ok to see others as long as it’s only one time.
OMG!
I hope you left that man sitting where he was before he finished that entire asinine thought.
My fuckwit told me: You made our bedroom so stressful by always accusing me of things and crying yourself to sleep, I needed something transactional.
Yes, I caught him with escorts, among other things. Transactional is the perfect way to describe my ex, he doesn’t do anything unless there is something in it for him. Sadly I am tied to him for another 8 years with kids. Otherwise I’d gladly never see that FW again.
Right – like us not wanting to sleep with them was an us problem rather than we don’t feel safe, comfortable, trusting, loved… You know, all those things they extract from the relationship when they cheat. Of course they have to go looking elsewhere because these nimrods plum forgot they already had something where they were! Just goes back to the fact that if this were not a satisfactory relationship, one can always leave ethically and honestly. Jives much more nicely with their cognitive dissonance to pin their shortcomings and missteps on us with this shit logic.
It’s was Jan 1, 2021 and one of the many idiotic excuses cheater ex gave me was that I complained about Trump too much. Seriously. Ex was not a Trump supporter. And I’d seen the year of texts between him and his latest affair person and she complained about Trump as much as I did if not more. OK for her I guess but not for his wife of 30+ years and mother of his 3 kids. These people are grifters and fools
“Maladaptive Coping Strategies”
He spent a lot of money finding the correct therapist to rename his “Asian Hooker Fetish,” which coincidentally also cost us a lot of money over 35 years. Fortunately, he found someone in AA who also doesn’t believe in looking backwards and making amends. So FW, enabler and half my retirement account have moved to Tennessee. (He is still insisting on too much money for me to buy the marital home I want to keep.) I am sure she is thrilled at her new found wealth, and will work hard to keep him happy. I am grateful the wonderful humans here at CN kept me from tap dancing and contorting myself. I was able to move straight to righteous anger. Jesus cheater used to make me feel so guilty for “white lies” —yes, as he was faking business trips to party with hookers. But with him gone, there is nothing to lie about!
p.s. I use the term “hooker” bc these woman didn’t come to the US to service men. They are clearly exploited. The term “sex worker” removes the horror of their lives.
Not necessarily exploited my dear. Main one the FW was with (not the only one by far) had quite the taste for luxury and designer everything.
A lot of sex workers end up pimping and trafficking younger women and girls and become perpetrators in their own rights. But it’s possible to feel sorry for the children they once were before various horror show experiences charred their souls.
There is also the case of young women from poor countries who are doing this to support their families back home. This is fairly common in some parts of Western Europe, to my knowledge. If “sex work” is legal and common in the country and there are p*mps involved, they might not even be earning that much money, I believe. Under such circumstances, besides the financial hardship itself, I wonder how much coercion some of them are receiving from those families and what would happen to them if they refused.
If she has a luxurious lifestyle (outside of her so-called work and away from her family), I would probably question this assumption, though.
In my own experience (I experienced coerced sex within a relationship as an adult in addition to creepy behavior on my father’s part as a child, and it was so soul-destroying that I chose to remain single for most of my life just to avoid having to go through this again), having to sleep with someone just to survive financially and/or avoid violence is absolutely horrifying.
I don’t know why “sex work advocates” keep depicting transactional sex in such a rosy light, even claiming it might be “less bad” than being a store clerk, cleaning other people’s homes, taking care of children or the elderly etc. (for some reason they always compare this to typical female-coded “chores”, never to being a heart surgeon, a soldier or whatever).
Having to sleep with someone to avoid severe hardship is not fine, even if the person who pays for this or uses some form of coercion is single.
Why some women appear to do this voluntarily, often with married and toxic FW, just to elevate their social status in some way is beyond my comprehension. Why don’t they pick any other job that paid the bills if they have a choice (and aren’t being subjected to coercive control from their p*mps or others)? It seems to happen, though.
Good questions. I agree with you on the points you make here.
Regarding why some women agree to be bangmaids to toxic users, the analogy I had for it is that the AP in my situation was like a bonsai tree who’d been pruned and deformed from birth by a creepy alcoholic trad dad and evangelical zombie mom so there was little need for major pruning, plus she was used to it.
Meanwhile I was raised relatively free range and grew to full height (literally and figuratively) so the process of trying to chop me into the shape preferred by dah patriarchy would pretty quickly kill me.
The interesting thing to me is how the “bonsai” types tend to continuously prune themselves. Deep down, most of the women I’ve encountered like this are dementedly angry to the point they overcompensate with grossly exaggerated girly traits. It’s kind of like what Margaret Atwood said about women under patriarchy having to be female impersonators. It frankly looks exhausting.
Oddly enough, I would meet a lot of those criteria myself. Only difference is that in my case, both parents including my creepy dad were religious nutcases (Catholic in this case) and probably covert alcoholics. I am of average height at best (not tall).
However, your description would fit my mother, too. She definitely worshipped her father who was a fierce Catholic, very dominant and controlling while being openly incestuous with another close relative. He also happened to be quite wealthy. In part thanks to his money, my mother never had to work in her life.
I don’t know why the “pruning” never worked for me (they certainly attempted it). I emerged from childhood in a state of utter confusion and riddled with anxiety, yet I became increasingly angry whenever people tried to squeeze me or other women into patriarchal norms. Also, I always seemed to be unable to behave in an overly “girly” manner and found this somewhat repulsive in others as well.
I think money can make victims of coercive control more entrapped, especially if they’re conditioned to depend on it. My dad didn’t come from money but noticed this dynamic with people who did like a college girlfriend whose famous symphony conductor father made sure his kids were hothouse flowers and then controlled everyone with purse strings. The girlfriend was apparently bravely detached and sought independence but it left her scarred and haunted. Because of this, my dad thought kids should inherit even if they can’t stand their families.
It’s weird, because objectively speaking, I am probably almost the same social class as my parents, judging by my income, career and level of education. Definitely a little bit lower, in part because my mother had access to “family money” while I didn’t, but the difference isn’t that large. Yet I have adopted something that almost resembles a poverty lifestyle, because I am so scared it wouldn’t last (even now as I’ve reached my late 40s). Of course, this has contributed to my loneliness and isolation – I’m basically a weirdo (lol). Unlike my mother, whatever I have has been achieved through my own work. Yet I always feel this could be taken away from me at any moment because I don’t “deserve” it. I think a lot of this is due to the messaging I received during my entire childhood. In this way, one can be “tainted” by family money even without ever trying to gain an advantage from it.
I think we’re economic attitude twins even if we came there by different routes. My dad was from an urban immigrant poor background and both my parents were starving artists so I’m conscious about spending. Even in times I’ve been flush, I can’t bring myself to pay full price for anything unless it’s a fair exchange for especially hard, stressful or important work. And then I identify so much that I sometimes overpay.
But even if my instinct is to scrimp on things for myself, my mother also believed women need to treat themselves and each other “like guests” to compensate for ways the world won’t.
So don’t you think it’s time you booked yourself a spring culinary and art tour of France and Italy? 😉
I’ve been following your comments for awhile and your insightfulness and humanity always remind me of something a mentor once said, which is that “Harmlessness is the only glamor.” I think you deserve some life-affirming experiences and comfort.
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This may be the main reason why I have adopted a very frugal lifestyle and have been living far below my means for most of my adult life. Due to my childhood experiences, I have developed an almost pathological fear of getting entrapped by money/lifestyle needs. I don’t expect to receive any inheritance, either.
I don’t think this is at all weird – or I should say, I see myself in what you said, very strongly. Serious Things happened to me when I was a kid which I was left to pull myself out of, no help provided (as a 7 yr old). I also grew up with a family who had (in my case) probably legitimate reasons for a fairly paranoid relationship with money. Perhaps as a result my default position when faced with a possible new experience is to think ‘what if I get to like it’ or ‘I probably won’t feel good enough about this afterwards to not regret it’. I’d like to think I got to pass some useful angles of this onto my kids, but I probably messed them up too / instead. At least I’m open to talking about it with them, though ‘Dad and his oddities’ are something they would probably do well not to worry about too often.
Mine actually somewhat hid things, although I knew some of it, and more came out during the divorce. His attorney was a blabbermouth who despised his client. Not ethical, but there it was.
When I got the contradiction of him choosing low-quality women and claiming they were “so much better” than his spouse appliance, it gave me some space and peace to heal. I decided at that point to let go even further and be glad that I was on my way to saner days.
I was talking to a domestic violence victim last night in the context of my volunteer work, and she asked me when I knew that my marriage was over. It was truly when he left the second time and went on to live life his own way, while very half-heartedly claiming he was working on reconciling with me. It took me a while to articulate and realize that the act of leaving spoke volumes, and that’s OK. A lot of us are that way.
Sorry — truly sorry — for this, but WTF?
Keyboardsavant, your questions most certainly DO have answers. This whole blog is filled with answers. The people on here have taken action on those answers. They have given up homes, money, communities, time with children, and much more. You don’t want to switch dance partners?! Seriously?
Maybe you’re beaten down, afraid (which I understand), but please don’t say there are no answers. That is simply not true. There are. They’re right here.
This is a sore subject for me. Really irks me, some of the shitty thing FW#2 said to me.
Back info: He was diagnosed with NPD so narcissistic supply was the utmost imperative to him. He was an attention junkie who only cared about himself. When he got fired from his most beloved job ever, he apparently had a meltdown of narcissistic mortification.
So when he was caught cheating, here was some of the things he told me:
*It has nothing to do with you. (excuse me? last time I checked it was my marriage and life too.)
*I took out my anger on her instead of you and the kids, so in a way I was protecting you! (then why do I feel so abused, my life demolished and have PTSD? I never saw anything on their text thread except lovey dovey texts.)
*I blamed you for losing my job and all the problems we were having. (Wtf? You were the one screwing up and getting written up/fired, not me)
*You should have kept my behavior in check! (Seriously?)
These are just a few. And of course, in the following few years of the pick me dance (I know, way too long!) he used that, “It’s in the past, you need to most past it now.” That was on constant repeat from him.
These shitty FW’s have zero excuse for betrayal. No amount of confabulation, excuses, rationalization and justification is enough because nothing makes this abusive behavior of theirs okay. NOTHING. NO EXCUSE.
I’m so glad you finally got out.
I was also blamed for everything even though neighbors thought I was super mom seeing how much I was doing for the family.
When I finally learned about how abusers and narcs use BLAME SHIFTING the light bulb went on in my head.
I got “it’s the way she makes me feel about myself”. Mind you she just had her 21st birthday weeks before and he was 48 years old. Also he said that was his target demographic, which included a student he met as an adjunct professor in our cities college, because they are “open minded.” He was evolved. I was too negative. I didn’t initiate sex enough (mind you I was exhausted and somewhat resentful from doing EVERYTHING), he “just needed better boundaries”. “The kids and you will always comes first. I need to just tell the other women (i.e. younggg girls) that there are limits to how much time and energy I can give them”. I also got “I need the excitement and newness of meeting someone who sees photos of me and wants to meet me”. This was said well before I found out he was a sugar daddy on a paid platform paying said young women to meet up.
I was also told about the 21 year old “she sees me. You only see with me with conditions” after 23 years together.
When I asked what they had in common since he had a masters degree and had been in the C-suite for years making mucho bucks while she had none of those things, he said ” we talk about horror movies and pop culture”. That really made me feel like crap that what I had been through over the decades with him and the two daughters I raised meant less than “pop culture” to an almost 50 year old man with a daughter her age. I am still in disbelief.
It’s no wonder I was diagnosed with CPTSD.
FW said I was too critical of him (gaslighting much?) while the various OW flattered him about his looks and brains.
Oh, have I mentioned that FW is a short overweight man with premature ED (porn dick) while his harem of OW are low-rent escorts and hookers he was paying?
Lol. The law of averages says the majority of cheaters and APs can hardly be cover model material. Nevertheless, these types seem to think they’re all that and a bag of chips. It boggles.
Ex used me, his wife, for relief! (Ala sexual coercion and non- consensual sex.) It physically hurt, it was abusive!
Regarding the Friday challenge. I never heard his “affair excuses” because he denied, lied and…. denied! He’s never admitted his horrifying adultery with fricken,,,,,, prostitutes. Lie and deny!
“It’s what my body needed at the time!” she said
So she’s just a meat mech that her cooch suddenly pilots onto random dick because her *body* needed it so autopilot just kicked in and off we go!
LMAO the narcissistic false equivalency move of equating stranger dick to air/water/food.
For his stalking and affairs my exFW used the excuse “I thought it meant something”. I’m four years out from all of it and I still have no idea what that is supposed to mean. So his feelings for other women were so important that he had to chase them (or stalk them) but his feelings for me and his children meant nothing? Meant less? I really will never understand that one.
Then, as far as the stripper habit goes, he claimed that he used to strippers to “erase the images of the AP, and the women he stalked, from his head” he claimed he did it for me. That one will sometimes make me laugh out loud when it pops into my head randomly. “I got a BJ from a stripper to erase the image of AP from my mind. I did for YOU! I did it for US!” He also is the uberpathetic stereotype that really thought they strippers liked him. He was so hurt when I laughed in his face when he talked about how one stripper in particular “really liked and needed” him. The look on his face when I said “Oh my god! You are such a mark! She’s using you! I can’t believe I’m married to the guy who thinks the stripper really likes him! You’re a joke. A meme!” It still makes me laugh.
It’s so disgusting to read that a man thinks of women as “relief.” I guess, at the age of 64, that this shouldn’t surprise me. But it does.
I asked FW why he had this „entanglement“ (he denied it was an emotional or a physical affair). He said he had too much time. I told him he should have started making me dinner, doing the shopping, cleaning, volunteering, getting a second job, actually trying at his job.
My father had numerous affairs throughout his marriage to my mother. His go-to excuse was that there are so many sexually frustrated women out there who have never experiences true sexual satisfaction, he was just doing a public service. Helping them over coming their sexual hang-ups and teaching them how to have “healthy” sex.
My ex husband’s explanation for screwing around was, to quote his exact words; “I might miss the best pussy I’ve ever have.” “Its got nothing to do with loving you, or my attraction to you.”
When our couples therapist asked why my ex did not tell his personal therapist of his multiple affairs, my ex said he thought the affairs were part of the cure for his depression and therefore no need to disclose.