Did You Compare Yourself to the Affair Partner?
The Friday Challenge question is: Did you compare yourself to the affair partner(s)? Did you compete with some phantom person? Or know too much?
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In the early excruciating days of chumpdom, I tell folks not to compare themselves to the affair partner(s). Step out of the triangle (rectangle, hexagon, dodecahedron… I never tire of this line…) and quit the pick me dance.
Yet some comparison with affair partners is usually inevitable.
Even if it’s along the lines of WTF, I don’t wear dentures! Or my boobs are REAL. Or I can’t believe my FW’s taste in pr****tutes.
It’s all part of untangling the skein. You want to know how this happened. Maybe you read a stupid Reconciliation Industrial Complex book that blamed the affair on your deficiencies. Alas, had you only sparkled brighter. Been more game. Been a different race, body build, had 17 orifices. You know, DIFFERENT.
But you couldn’t meet the FWs needs (often unexpressed, you were supposed to intuit those) that they wanted 17 orifices. But Trixie can. You’re not really sure about the physics involved, but Trixie is everything you are not. In your imagination, Trixie never has a bad day. Her life is romance and the best s*x ever.
Until you realize, one day (it’s a Tuesday), that this entire f*cktangle has nothing to do with you.
It’s not about what you are, or aren’t. It’s about your partner’s lousy character and a Schmoopie’s willingness to believe they’re Special. And the FW’s lousy character is just in service of a Love That Is Bigger Than Them Both.
But today, and for a future podcast (please oh please leave me a voice message here!) tell me how you compared yourself and how you got past it. Help the newbie chumps stuck in the compare and contrast phase of suffering.
You’re fine. You’re enough! TGIF!
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I have been reading for about five years, since my D-Day, and this site, these words, and the comments have helped me tremendously. (So Thank you to Tracy and all of you!!) This was the first post that pushed me to press the register button… I really am mostly meh. But this is the part that still messes with my head on bad days. My FW seriously traded down, in all aspects. Nothing special about my story, it’s a mish mash of things told here, not very sensational, FW just decided to move on one day and I was the last to know. She’s everything I’m not. Meek, underachieving, a bad cook (per my kids), boring (per friends that have met her). The comparison is hard to avoid. But when I go down that rabbit hole- I try to stop thinking of her, and remind myself that this was about him. And his inadequacies.
100%
The OWs seem just like me- smart, attractive, accomplished. Just less in the know about his flaws and thus better able to feed his ego. Fresh victims for his bottomless capacity to lie to make himself look better than he is.
Alas, I was unaware for the eight years of Cheaty McLiarface’s first affair that I was in competition. I was conditioned with intermittent reinforcement as a means of coercive control. So, when he treated me like a nuisance in his life I just rode it out as usual. After all he loved me and my irritating behaviors were causing his irritation. Years later I caught him comparing me to Joyful Jil. Ending the comparison by stating that I “have some amazing good qualities too.” Those “amazing good qualites” I would later learn are that he considers me a good mother and a good housekeeper. These creatures are nothing if not transactional, completely lacking in the capacity to truly emotionally connect and bond.
” I was conditioned with intermittent reinforcement as a means of coercive control.” This was me. Mine left for someone younger, richer, socially connected, big breasts unlike mine. He had gotten new teeth- I found the dentist who would do it without breaking his jaw, he had terrible teeth- and in the 20 years we were marries, worked hard and was finally making a lot of money. I miss nothing about him. He was insanely cruel to me and I think on that- she is with a man who viciously hurt not just another woman, but the mother of 2 of his kids..that is who she has. Sometimes I think- he probably treats her differently because of her better “value”. Ha. I don’t care – it’s creepy and pure objectification. I take better care of my fancy jewelry than my beach jewelry! But the fact that I was trained like a dog- intermittent rewards is a dog training technique – sticks with me. I can and do- not always, but more than ever since I joined this group! Thank you Tracy and all the contributors!- relish my freedom from abuse. I am scarred, but I am free and alive. He was killing me, and there are some people here who feel the same. Death by humiliation, neglect and malice was escaped!
I did for a hot minute, then realized that I didn’t need to. I knew what he was chasing. She was younger and never had children. She wasn’t prettier, smarter, or any other qualifier that someone would refer to. He wanted to run away from his responsibilities and live the easy life. What he got was someone who had been married twice before and cheated on each husband for the next. Quite the catch, huh? They are married from what I understand and living 1000 miles away. I am meh, don’t care they can have each other and have to watch over their shoulders for the rest of their time together.
I have learned, as you probably know,that cheaters typically cheat down, or trade down. My FW was a serial and multiple cheater. Countless betrayal objects over nearly 4 decades. Once I began to learn about his cheating, I learned something quite common. These people had qualities I certainly lacked, and never wanted to possess. Things like alcoholism, arrests and convictions (yikes! Mug shots), STIs and STDs, lifelong rampant promiscuity and prostitution. Yes, I didn’t have these things and he was/perhaps is still attracted and aroused by this stuff. So, perhaps look at this comparison. I was unable (and unwilling to try) to drink him under the table. But a betrayal object who could drink all night was irresistible to him. I clearly saw that the characteristics I lacked only highlighted his perversity. He was not attracted to a highly educated, fit and trim, successful person. He wasn’t looking for a good-looking woman with a 401k and stock options. Whatever he stumbled upon in the alley was what he wanted. So, folks, remember this…it is a badge of honor to be rejected by a FW like this. Look for me, running the Colfax next month! I am the little silver-haired gal burning up the 70+ bracket. You are mighty for NOT being what these FWs chased .
My older attorney said trading down is very much the norm. Part of it is that they have to keep stoking their egos, and part of it is that they want more control and won’t pick someone who asks too many questions.
From what we learned during the divorce, my ex’s “friends” were all women with complex relationship histories, messy pasts, low-paying jobs, and financial issues. He was newly retired with a pension and investments, and he chose to treat them well, to his detriment. Thankfully, we always had separate credit cards and had divided the bank accounts shortly after he left, so none of that went into the divorce negotiations.
But the retirement assets? Alas, he had been spending them like his personal savings account, as we found out through a loophole that my ex might not have known about. We got things evened up in closeout, thankfully. My attorney commented that if the divorce process had gone on longer and had gone to trial, doing the even-up transfer might have been an issue.
I recently saw Miranda’s lawyer character in Sex & the City where she starts telling her potential dates she’s a stewardess (she says stewardess, not me) instead of a lawyer & partner in a law firm. She was shocked that men asked her out more then. Not that flight attendants are trading down, but in these men’s minds, stewardesses were more sexual objects than lawyers and thus, more of use to them.
My ex husband said his AP was stupid, and he liked that because he wanted a new partner who would accept his decisions and never question him. Hilarious because his online AP, with giant inflatable breasts and makeup that made her look like Minnie Mouse, was a fake, and he’d fallen for an online catfish scam.
I found out because he left a real estate listing open on our bedroom computer, with an email asking her to move in with him.
He told everyone that I threw him out because I was jealous that he was giving financial advice to an online colleague. Once I learned he was claiming this, it was easy to disprove because I’d found and saved their emails and receipts, including bank and wire transfers, showing the tens of thousands of dollars he’d sent.
He traded WAY down.
At one point I said to FW that I was trusting and a bit naive and was worried I maybe on the spectrum. It stuck in my head his response. Something like, I like you like that with a strange look on his face. At the time it weirded me out , gave me the heebie geebies and stuck in my mind. Now I know its because they want us and AP to be easy to manipulate. Makes their lives easier. Well thanks Mr FW because now I am the complete opposite. But I dont mind as you grow older you grow wiser. People need to earn trust not be given it.
It has helped me enormously that my FW traded down. She is older, uglier, a hypochondriac and less well educated or qualified than I am. By comparison I am slim, healthy and attractive. I also have a kind and caring personality. Hers is fake and shallow (something my FW recognises from his own behaviour).
My family all love me and have taken my side and he has lost everything. For him the non stop lying and cheating (something I hid from myself better than he hid it from me) was his excitement in the boring landscape of family life.
Neverthless I torture myself from time to time with doubts. Is this 3 times married, cheater with married men and giver of sex on the first meeting kinder than me, better wife material than me?
Judging by my FWs desperate attempts to reconcile with me and his steadfast belief I was only ‘toying’ with him with my determination to divorce, the answer is no. He’s already found himself a new shiny thing behind this woman’s back, and, despite that, he looks and sounds miserable.
I think it would have been harder for me if I had seen them happy and in love and making a future together. Then the self doubt would have solidified into a belief I was somehow lacking, even though I know I wasn’t and it was all on him. As it is he is in my rear vew mirror and I am never reversing the divorce bus.
When the affair first happened, I definitely compared myself to her. It bothered me that she even looked sort of like me (dyed red hair, prominent nose). Was I not as glamorous? Was I not as fun? I was definitely smarter (he bragged about her being dumb, and I wondered if she had any idea how he really talked about her).
I should have realized there simply is no comparison, because *I don’t sleep with other women’s husbands*.
I got my nose fixed years ago, and now I wear my natural medium-golden-brown hair mixed with gray. But the most important difference of all continues to be, *I don’t sleep with other women’s husbands*.
No, there was nothing I admired about her; morally, demeanor, personality, or looks. Also, I was very busy working full time, part time and taking college classes at night. Surviving, it left very little time for me to obsess about either of them.
Of course in the early days I hated them both; but once I could stand again it was easy to see them for who/what they were.
I will never forget the pain of betrayal; but I was so blessed to be free of him. Sometimes it takes a while to see that.
This topic I wanted to talk about today! Thank you CL..actually all of them are 🎯.
With both my cheaters, I knew they were treating me like spoiled left overs in the back of the frig but WHY?? So both cheating husbands had basement closets for years. However the last one was a doozy with his lies. The biggest one was when I texted him at work and said he was acting exactly like my #1 ex when he had an OW for years.
My #2 Cheater waited 8 hours to text me back and then said..he had not found anyone as good as me YET!!! Nice compliment that other chumps would take courage from.
But that just loaded my gun ..
I didn’t find out until months later the exact extent of his cheating, that he said said I deserved by the way..
But the good news is, I had a lawyer lined up and was ready to lock my abusive husband out BEFORE HE COULD FIND a higher class AP to dump me properly for.
He had to go on line and find someone who was from another country and needed a work permit to keep going.
Oops..
She’s 10 years younger and a lot thinner. They like to rub this in by sending my 9 year old home OW’s hand-me-downs (AP is the same size as a 9 year old), and having OW show up to events for the kids dressed like a streetwalker (we’re in Canada. It was -25C. She came to the Christmas concert for a bunch of 6 year olds in a mini skirt and tube top… with her midriff out).
It bothered me for a little while, but honestly it’s just so transparent and ridiculous that I couldn’t take it seriously for long. She has continued to be an attention-seeking garden tool, rubbing up on dads at the kids’ activities, and moving a known mate poacher (a family friend from my side of the family) into their home. I love this for my ex. Couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy. 🙂
OMG I just found out my exFW’s garden implement used to hit on his brother-in-law.
I’ve been divorced since 2003, and hit meh about it before the paperwork was final. My (ex)MIL knew we were struggling and moved the smoopie to where we lived, to have my replacement right on hand.
I saw the brother-in-law at an event this week, did the catch up talk. He dished that MIL grew to hate smoopie and made her life miserable. I love this for them! Then he said he kept his distance because she would shamelessly hit on him at family gatherings. So gross all around.
Good heavens! She sounds deranged.
and immature & unclassy to boot.
There were nameless others but the Triffid and the Klingon got the ‘prizes’.
The Triffid had been there since the start, offering herself like an ice cream to a toddler but lived overseas so not a serious problem at first.
Loud, bossy and desperate- no I wasn’t like her at all.
The Klingon was part of a new committee that fired my boss and I because we didn’t put up with their bullshit – I took them to the tribunal and won damages.
I was truly deeply shocked when I found out she was the one- of all people.
A known liar, procurer of community funds and all round arsehole.
I couldn’t deny the superb matching of personalities there though.
They both won what they deserve.
I dont know if it would have felt “better” to have a spouse trade up or down but I feel like Im somewhat in the minority of seeing that (objectively) one could make an argument that Susan of Seattle was a trade-up.
She was single, well educated, corporate success with double the income I would ever see, polyglot, treasured by her family, and she had straight hair.
My whole life has included a battle with my curly hair. I have occasionally landed on a good cut that optimizes my curls but mostly, I fought the sort of frizziness that society sees as ugly across the board. The day I met her, right after she met me and shook my hand commenting that it was so nice to meet me, she soon turned around and I saw her smooth, straight hair and I internally winced.
Cheater moved away from me/kids for 1.5 years and claimed he was not involved with OW during that time, but (even though I accepted his unlikely story then) I now see that it was a huge lie. I think his return 18 months later spelled the end of their relationship but I have no idea who broke up with who or why. I know now that it doesnt matter but will take my curiosity about it to Purgatory where I expect to meet Cheater again.
If I were to guess what commonality the women (who I later realized) he likely cheated with … I think they were all nulliparous – they had never delivered a child from their bodies. He really wanted kids but seemed discontented by the state of my body after the second child was born. Im guessing that I took in the role of “breeding mare” and he set out to enjoy some strange.
I believe that “giving birth” is apt description for the process…we give much of ourselves and I see it as nearly a holy process. That a man would treat the woman who birthed his children as less-than because she changed in the process is abhorrent to me.
So while I felt less-than Susan of Seattle for a while, I worked my way out of that thinking. Add to that I had many of the traits and characteristics that he often told me he wanted in a partner. My only lingering dysfunction is watching out for Susan in airports when I travel (she has always lived thousands of miles from me) although I have no idea what I would say to her if I saw her.
Pettiness warning: I really saw my cheater as handsome but he had inferiority issues about being short, light-brown, middle class, and leaving the military at a lower rank than his peers. He always accused me of wanting a tall white guy. I really, truly never for second considered leaving him for a tall white guy. After his death, I married a tall, white, high-military-ranking trustfund baby who is a real joy. We revel daily in our mutual good-fortune of finding each other and I am smugly content that if cheater and I had divorced (rather than him dying) and he later met my second husband, Cheater would have been annoyed on some world-class level.
As a college intern I was completely mystified by a woman named Kathryn from Texas who ran through every married or committed douchebag at work and still somehow kept her job. To quote another coworker, Kathryn made up for her lack of conventional attractiveness with a terrible personality, zero work or personal ethics, no talent and poor basic physical health.
But what I eventually figured out is that no one fawns or fluffs egos more enthusiastically than someone with literally nothing else to offer, not even kindness. She would literally do anything to please, including painful and degrading sex acts and threesomes. She would sleep with men who called her fat or ugly. But it was impossible to have sympathy for her because of the way she “threw blood in the water” and stirred up the sharks at work with her constant cringe-ily worshipful fawning.
Rather than making other young women (or even guys) compete with her, watching Kathryn’s simpering and slathering at work had the interesting effect of making the rest of us stop having fun at all. We all become a lot more dry and staid to avoid being associated with Kathryn’s conduct. Then of course some of us (especially women) came under criticism for having “bad personalities” (read: not smiling enough, not laughing at douchebaggy jokes, etc.). This pleased Kathryn enormously and she even started fueling the bullying.
But Kathryn was mostly just a symptom of a really terrible social order whose behavior would never have been encouraged if it wasn’t for men in power who are in the market for that kind of groveling. She was a red flag in her own right (and a future Ghislaine Maxwell) but mostly a red flag regarding the kinds of freaks who’d consort with someone like that.
Anyway, the AP in my FW drama was pretty much a dead ringer for Kathryn in every sense. Consequently, any typical chump tendency I might have had to compare and wonder what the AP had that I lacked was halted on D-day when a whistleblower sent me a video clip of the AP drunkenly cavorting at a work event.
Oh hell no yuck. Not only did I not aspire to be like the AP in any way, it instantly revealed FW to be “that guy”– one of the detestable pissants who requires over-the-top suck-uppery. I never knew he was such a massive loser.
The similarities between the AP and the Texas doorknob also scared me because another of Kathryn’s wonderful traits was a psychotically violent temper.
Yes, I worked with a woman like Kathryn. I chaired several international conferences in that job, where she was supposed to help me. I had to call the previous admin, who had fleeted up, for clues on how certain things worked. I had to make sure that “Kathryn” was getting things done, which she eventually did if I kept bugging her. During those conferences, she was like a light with moths fluttering around her. She drew a lot of male attention. She was twice divorced with two grade-school-aged children.
Ironically, when I left for a temporary sabbatical to consult for a federal agency, “Kathryn” followed me not long after and was assigned to someone I periodically interacted with at the same agency. When I ran into them both at a technical conference reception, very chummy, she took me aside and said a wedding was in the works. She had a RING. Her fiancé had left his wife of several decades for “Kathryn” and was divorced. She had given her ex-husband (#2) full custody because it was “better for the kids.” And it was “ok” to date and live together because he was a federal employee and she was a contractor, paid with money he didn’t control, or so she told me.
Then I heard through the rumor mill that the wedding never happened and that her contract ended. No one knew what happened to her after that. She had a common last name, and a Google search yielded nothing.
Later, I heard that he had retired and married someone else who was retired, a far more even match. Yes, sometimes we find sanity.
You could almost feel sorry for these people– almost. But none of the “mate-poachers” I ran into professionally were immigrant single mothers from the third world who were trying to save their families from political violence by toiling in the west and sending money back home.
Another interesting aspect is that many of those guys probably didn’t have any “Kathryns” fawn over them until they had gained a certain amount of power, status and money. Therefore it should have been obvious to them that this was mostly transactional (or maybe it wasn’t in your case, but I know other women who definitely did this for “strategic” purposes). However, for many of those FW, this seems to be a feature rather than a bug.
If I, as a woman, encounter a guy who is very obviously after any money I might have (or is trying to gain some favors professionally), I’m immediately repulsed. However, many FW appear to react in the opposite way.
I suspect FW didn’t get much attention until he got the symbolic promotion and title. Even then I think this only drew the dumb or desperate types who didn’t understand that any title less than “partner” doesn’t come with big bucks in that industry.
I know Kathryn was all about quid pro quo though she seemed to really need the attention as well. The AP seemed similarly wired.
In the conservative circles I grew up in the idea was always that men who don’t get much attention from women are great “husband material” (which is why conventionally attractive women were strongly advised to seek them out as potential partners). However, sometimes even those guys can turn out quite predatory later on when given the chance. I’ve seen it happen myself. I believe this can add an extra layer of confusion for the chump.
Yes to this. FW narcopath in his youth wasn’t attractive or popular in part due to his weight so never a “player” and seemed like safe husband material. Eventually he lost the weight and made lots of money and developed charm. By conventional standards I’d always been the more attractive one, plus I came from moneyed and educated family. Basically
I “married down” was the opinion when we were young, and might one day discard him.
FW turned out to the biggest lying narcissist sociopath and spent a fortune on strip mall escorts living decades long secret double life. In addition to considering a fatal accident for me.
It’s kind of funny that the most faithful guy I ever dated was a French Calvin Klein model who, without ever working out, had rippling six pack abs. Meanwhile, the biggest cheater I dated was a prematurely balding blobular dude with yellow teeth.
Granted the ugly guy went to an Ivy League school and could be very erudite and the French guy was simple and boring. Neither of them were right for me but one fate was a bit less awful than the other. The real difference between them was that French guy’s punk socialist mother left his violent father and struggled financially while Ivy league ugly guy was raised with domestic abuse in an intact but horribly abusive rich family.
You know I did..he was slimy was a police officer and wore a uniform, was cocky and full of himself. I was a workaholic to fulfill our plan for her to be a SAHM until the kids were all in school. She introduced our kids to him in his police car and as little kids they were impressed. My daughter said ” Mommy’s friend Jim is a police man and his car has red lights he turns on, you should see it daddy!” Then I checked on “Jim” married 3 times used his position to poach mostly married women, had been disciplined numerous occasions ( to the point he was compelled to retire early) and I thought ” what a POS!” Am I comparing myself to this waste of DNA?!. F#@& NO! I don’t destroy families, I don’t act entitled, I have a soul, my employer can count on me to act in a respectful and proper manner and my ( now grown kids) know who was made of courage integrity and had their best interests at the forefront. She might have wanted that licentious ribald lothario and the chaos he ( immediately) brought but he wasn’t going to influence my kids. He thought himself a alpha male…he was somewhere down by whale s#!+ and that’s at the bottom of the ocean
Licentious ribald lothario– thanks for that. Describes every “mate poacher” ever. It’s also the Catch 22 even for chumps who momentarily lose their minds and consider revenge affairs– the fact that no one is going to mess with a married/partnered person unless they’re a massive POS so it’s hardly worth the bleach bath you’ll need afterwards.
I had been trying to figure out who my FW had been texting for years. He always said it was a colleague. Didn’t believe that one, but he was always home with me (except business trips). And I was deep in denial. The gaslighting had me totally confused. The day after DDay in our one session with a marriage counselor, he let her first name slip and that was all I needed to figure out who she is. Of course I went down that rabbit hole and looked at every single thing she had ever posted on social media. I needed to know. At first I felt like crap (not sleeping after DDay probably didn’t help either), feeling inferior. She’s 8 years younger, she drives a BMW, she has a phd, she’s married, she paints her fingers nails (FW once told me it would be my fault if he cheats because I don’t paint my fingers nails or shave certain places bald). But upon further inspection, she is just as empty as FW. Social media is full of snake oil sales of people’s made up stories of their lives. Much easier to follow CL advice now. But sometimes you need to look in order to trust they suck.
My ex said to me, post-divorce, that he wanted to (ahem, getting around censors here) have s*x with different kinds of women (e.g., Asian, black, etc.). Talk about shallow and objectifying! D-Day #2 was an affair with a black woman. His second ex-wife was Asian (she left him, possibly for another man). Third ex-wife was a blonde (I’m not).
The bottom line was that he didn’t have a *type*–and so I didn’t focus on “what makes *her* special? Instead, I focused plenty on “what’s wrong with me?” I certainly lacked self-confidence as a teen and young adult, but I found my self-worth after divorce and therapy. I still consider myself as a work in progress (even as a senior citizen), because there are always new ways to grow, new insights to gain.
My guess is that he never got over being an awkward nerd in junior high and high school, even though he matured into a very physically attractive man who had no difficulty attracting women. But he was spineless at times (for example, not defending me when a friend of his was rude to me, or not wanting to be seen as the bad guy when confronted with a difficult situation, leaving me to do the dirty work). He has many fine qualities (I wouldn’t have married him if he hadn’t), but he really never grew up in important ways that matter.
We’ve kept in touch over the years (via email only. I only saw in him person, once, after he started dating the woman who became his second wife, when I bumped into on a train platform), so I’ve had a narrow slice of view into the arc of his life after we parted.
After divorce #3, he told me that his elderly mother (whom I loved and respected) admonished him against “entanglements.” I guess he took her advice because he’s never remarried.
Our experiences are all different and the shock of D-day can leave many of us feeling like we are the ultimate freak; that our situation and story is unique, beyond bizarre and probably impossible to believe much less understand. Our perceptions and emotions seem surreal at the time we experience them. Anyway, I remember that phase of suffering, some years ago. I was 59.5 years old and actually was pretty confident about my body, health and fitness. I remember being unhappy in my marriage because my eX was treating me with emotional abuse and extreme sexual coercion. And I was staying because I was mindf– ed into thinking I was not allowed to leave my marriage, as a good Christian wife (I know…. I’m way past that now). Anyway, he was not exactly taking care of himself and I assumed none of his professional colleges would be keen on having an affair with him. Of course in my worst nightmares I did not dream that he’d get around that by secretly paying for it. My initial response (it is what it is) was not that I was not sexy enough etc, but that eX was so damned determined to be “in control”, that he figured he could achieve that control by paying for it. So my initial concern was not that I was not enough, but terror realizing that he would do anything for control. It was a bit later that I was processing massive cognitive dissonance on the entire thing when I realized that the “lovely ladies” he paid were mostly the same age as our daughters.
How disgusting that he was paying women the same age as your daughters. I hope you told them. Not to shock them but because young girls raised by disgusting men like this are probably left with all sorts of confusing and jagged memories from childhood that they need to process. It might help them emotionally if they’re able to see him as he really is and distance themselves accordingly.
The truth will set you free as they say.
Yes. There was a previous girlfriend that he idolized who cast her shadow across our marriage of several decades. He talked about her looks and how she moved. Reportedly, they only dated for a matter of months, but he fell hard and crashed emotionally when he broke up with her. She wasn’t religious and didn’t fit the family norms. He felt he had to end it. Naively, I assumed that was that. Nope.
After we got married, she continued to send him cards and call our home phone. That went on for YEARS. After awhile, when I answered the phone at home, I began telling her not to call, and I threw out the cards, reading them before trashing them. It made me very uncomfortable, and I stopped telling my then-husband about her attempts to reach him. Or were they attempts? Were they in contact? He insisted, no. I did compare and felt intimidated.
Then she called again. I was about to cut her off, but I decided to let her talk for a while. She told me all about her failed relationships, kids from various guys, her work, and what it was like where she lived. Interesting. I was supposed to share all that with my then-husband? Instead I told her not to call again and didn’t tell him that she had called. But I stored that conversation in my mind.
As our marriage crumbled while the youngest was preparing to graduate from high school, he talked A LOT about what an amazing woman she was, which made me wonder why he was talking about someone from decades back. And yes, when he left for the last time, he ended up in her area of the country. I was so very fed up by then with him in general (he was an addict with mental health issues) that I felt strangely neutral about the thought of him landing in her area.
At times during separation, he seemed buoyant about life and very busy for a newly retired man. I figured he had paired up. Then he’d crash and make my life miserable. Somewhere in there, I figured that the old girlfriend hadn’t worked out.
Some months after the attorneys got involved, his attorney told mine that it was an adultery case and that he wasn’t feeling good about the possibility of a trial because they had nothing at all on me that way. Opposing counsel also said that he was getting weary of his client’s unreasonable expectations and demands on his time. He reportedly told my STBX, “Get a life, dude. Your marriage is over.” My STBX’s mental health became a major issue. I guess he wasn’t paired up then. His attorney told mine that my husband was now too unstable for trial. Both attorneys agreed that it seemed best to push harder to negotiate and settle it. And we settled not long after that.
Some years later, a family member of his told me about a woman he had brought to a family wedding. She didn’t fit the family norms, and they were concerned that she was taking advantage of my ex financially. I guess she is more his type than I was (blond, snappy dresser), but truly, they can have each other. I don’t care as long as he leaves me alone. As a friend of mine likes to say, not my committee.
Kibbles are kibbles. Old, young, ugly, pretty, short, tall, fat, thin. Doesn’t matter. Took me awhile to realize this. Has absolutely nothing to do with me. I was a fantastic wife and person, and he didnt deserve me!
It’s now 15 years since I found out. He definitely traded down which screwed with my head. (Note: it wasn’t just me who thought this. At our daughter’s wedding many people took the time to comment on the newly presented lady love. Shocked they were.)
Now the reason for my dismay was the man I had been exposed to, often denigrated what he considered less than women. His constant comments about women’s so called beauty and “substance” should have been a dead give away. Yes, he objectified women.
But the younger, naive me thought he was an authority and had chosen well! Hahaha me. Gee that’s screwed thinking. So, when he traded down I was so, so confused.
To anyone out there experiencing a similar mind f***, it’s all about him and nothing about you. Be glad you are away from it all.
My first husband was a CHEATER. He slept with friends, coworkers, friends of coworkers, neighbors, the church choir director, most of the sopranos, a couple of altos and Sister Margaret who ran the pre-marriage program in our parish. He also slept with the woman he rear-ended at a stop sign, my boss, his boss’s wife, the woman who interviewed me for a position I really wanted (who told me about it herself because she thought I was his sister) and with my sister. As I was kicking him out of our home, he told me very seriously, “It had nothing to do with you.”
It took me a long, long time to figure out what he meant by that. Decades. What I finally realized is that he didn’t cheat because I wasn’t pretty enough or smart enough or good enough in bed or whatever enough. He cheated because he was a cheater. He would have cheated on whoever he was with. He had cheated on every girlfriend he had before me and on every wife or girlfriend he had after me. He cheated because he was selfish, entitled and had no morals, no integrity and no character. I finally understood it before I found chump lady, but I didn’t have the vocabulary to explain it even to myself until after I read her book. It didn’t help that society seems to blame the woman for everything that goes wrong in a marriage, and even my own parents blamed me. (Strangely, they did not blame my sister for her part in the cheating.)
But when I discovered the first affair (with Alice in Dairyland, which was at the time a real beauty contest), I truly believed he cheated because I was somehow lacking. Later, when my sister-in-law (I kept the family/divorced the cheater) told me that her brother had never NOT been cheating, I began to realize how I was well rid of him. Now it’s difficult to remember why I shed so many tears over that (diagnosed) Narcissist!
I totally compared myself but it was more like WTF is he trading down too? I even shouted HER?! when he told me and he just shrugged. I said “She’s so dumb” and he shrugged. And I was “But she’s really really dumb” and he shrugged. And finally he admitted that she was a compliant sub in bed and that was the winning formula. He also said he was sick of paying for h**kers, and she was free. Well- I couldn’t compete with that one!!!
My cheater developed an addiction to Asian « masseuses ». He and I are both Caucasian. I am Size M, not XS, the size of the black lace panties I found in his knapsack. He told me I could lose weight in my stomach and that I had so many wrinkles and look so old. We are both in our late 60’s. His « masseuses » were probably in their forties. I did not do anything about any of the above complaints. I did not slather on anti-wrinkle cream or inject Botox into my face. I did not lose any weight because I am actually reasonably fit and exercise anyway and have gained just a few age pounds over the years. Guess I looked old and enormous in comparison to probably younger and more petite « masseuses ». Just one of many ways he lost perspective.
“I did not do anything about any of the above complaints. I did not slather on anti-wrinkle cream or inject Botox into my face. I did not lose any weight because I am actually reasonably fit and exercise anyway and have gained just a few age pounds over the years.”
Good for you! Typical male FW double standards about aging. I bet he wasn’t exactly an Adonis himself.
The other woman is often “fun”. For my ex, that meant she didn’t care if he drank to excess, took drugs, and partied. Also, she was a sex worker. Together, they spent a remarkable amount of money on sex toys.
She seems to be poorly educated. She’d had a baby in her teens and three significant relationships (two divorces) by the age of 35. This was not her first affair, and she gave him an STD.
When I first learned of their relationship, I imagined the most successful, funny, beautiful woman because I thought she’d have to be amazing for FW to do that to me. As part of his devaluing process, he tried to convince me that she and I are equally trashy. There’s no comparison. It was so ridiculous.
Regardless of what the affair partner is or isn’t. FW’s always trade down because who would want to be with a person capable of that? The basis of any relationship is trust. It will always be a surface-level or transactional relationship based on both of their failings rather than their strengths.
On comparison, which I did for a long time but as time has gone by I no longer think about, here is something I read in my infidelity recovery travels and saved. Adjust the genders accordingly for your situation:
“I read this on my psychology support groups and I wanted to share it to hurt wife( like me) but I’m a lot more heal now. Because I can see that I’m much more happy, healthy, focus, better financially, more love from my family and his family, more security in life many much more better and better than both of them. (Last night, he came to see me and hand me some of the food I like to eat. I said thank you so much for thinking of me, but my eyes keep looking at his stomach (so big)He looks so old sad and tired. I felt sorry for him. I felt sorry for his poor choices. I want our woman to wait. Karma is coming this way. Just wait for ur turn.
“The betrayed wife, after discovering an affair, takes such a hit to her self-esteem, and she questions what it was about the other woman that was so attractive to her husband. Was she sexier? Was she better, somehow? Why did the other woman get the best parts, when she was left with the worst of her …wayward husband? The truth is, that is not how this works. She is not better, or more attractive. She does not get the best parts of the husband.
What’s attractive about this the other woman is that they are the sickest, the weakest, the most injured of the pack. The insecure wayward husband wanting to feel strong and powerful, scans the herd for the easiest to take down. The self assured, the strong, the healthy will not do as those women want nothing to do with a married man. Wayward husbands, needy and looking for someone to boost his ego, must look for someone beneath him, someone who will look up to him, someone who will make him feel superior, if only temporarily. What better way for an insecure person to feel powerful, and admired, than to pick the least of the bunch? The fact is … they always trade down. If she happens to be prettier, or thinner – it’s just pure luck that the wrapping is worth more than the gift inside. What’s inside, is no match for you, the faithful wife. You’re beautiful, and strong and probably the mother of his children. The truth is, the other woman could be anyone, anyone slow enough to be caught and willing to accept what little that wayward husband offers to them.
She accepts the very worst parts of the wayward husband; the liar, the cheater, the deceiver, the broken man. His behavior is lower than low, but that’s okay with her. She accepts trashy behavior, because she is trash and has no conscience. She has no self-esteem because she knows her value … her value as the weakest, the most injured of the herd. She accepts his cheating ways and lowlife behavior because she knows her place in the pack – and it’s at the end of the row. Bringing up the rear, it’s just a matter of time before someone singles her out, and uses her for his own selfish reasons in his quest to be admired.
Betrayal hurts, I know. Boy, do I know. But remember, when they find someone weak enough to have an affair with, they always affair down. The other woman had to be broken deep inside in order to crawl in bed with a married man and except your leftovers instead of being strong enough to find an unattached man on her own. She had to be so broken to not care about you, the faithful wife, the children who would be wounded and all the lives destroyed by her actions and participation… and I bet she will not accept any responsibility for those actions. She will hold her hands up in false innocence when the curtain is pulled back to reveal the disgusting acts she committed against your family.
Betrayed wife, hold your head high. YOU were strong enough to remain faithful and love a man who used your trust for his own selfish desires. He has devastated your life, but you can end the pain you are feeling. Use the strength inside you to pick up the pieces and begin living again. YOU are invincible in your strength and courage. Take a deep breath, dry your tears for the millionth time and carry on, my dear. Because nothing can keep you down for long.”
Oh, that’s lovely, VH.
And I want to hear about your infidelity recovery travels; I’m planning my own now.
My ex was having an emotional affair with a just turned 30 year old from his college class. He was in his late 50s. He had all kinds of photos on his phone that he would show to our daughter and me as she was very attractive. And I’m in my 60s, not thin or pretty or meet any standards of beauty in this society so yeah I compared my self to her. I flat out asked if he was having an affair and his only response was well she gets me and you don’t! So yes I compared myself to her. Ultimately he realized she was taking advantage of him and he was rather devastated. Then he tried to date another woman younger than him but that did not work out.
I’m so glad I’m out of that marriage! He’s not found anyone else in the 3 plus years since the divorce was final. I’ve been at meh for a while.
He showed photos of somebody he wanted to f*** to your daughter? Sick bastard.
Yes he did. And bragged about how wonderful she was not just to our daughter but in front of me. Daughter was furious with him. And rightly so of course.
It is kind of funny how these old guys think they are going to pull a bunch of young supermodels.
Right? I see that so much with these men in their 50 s and 60s who think they are some kind of a catch for young women. This ex still is under the impression these young girls want him. Ugh. But he’s not my problem anymore!
Then they fall into depression when they can’t and expect sympathy.
I’m trying to forgo comparing myself with her, but it’s difficult not to — this is still so new.
Our divorce is only beginning and he’s already saying it’s not going to work out between them — because of the consequences I’m insisting upon!
Don’t even let him talk to you about that relationship. Go as low contact as you can and make sure he knows you are not going to be listening to him talk about his personal life and problems.
Luckily you are not responsible for his relationship with her working. Also, having consequences because of a fair divorce procedure is not on you. There are consequences you will have to deal with because of a divorce too. I doubt he will be worried about that.
I know you’ve got this, and I know it is hard in the beginning.
Honestly I can’t compare myself with AP now wife, given background (we are all immigrants to US and after FW & I had 2 kids, he cheated and left me for her and brought her over &put her through nursing school.) Now he’s cheating on her brazenly & had a secret love child and lost his big job … she gets to keep her prize & pay its bills and have the honor of changing its diapers when the time comes… all with a big smile for her cherished twu-wuv epic-story-happily-ever-after image. Win-win-win if you ask me.
I will be 7 years out in August. My relationship with the ex lasted 26 years, including about 25 years living together and 18 years married. No children so at least I was able to go no contact as soon as I discovered the ex’s long-term, long distance relationship with his ex girlfriend from school. His first and only love. His ‘true soulmate’. I was 59 when dumped, months off 60, and I discovered the affair a few weeks later when I inadvertently saw his inbox while trying to upload a job application to an online website on the home computer. The exgf and the ex had gone out for a couple of years while at school, she dumped him when they were at university. They got back together while she was doing her Doctorate, and he had qualified as a lawyer. Their relationship continued to be long distance. She dumped him a couple of years later. She got engaged to someone else (who she duly married) only months after dumping him. Ultimately she became a life coach specialising in supporting mothers. Ironic! I met him through work. I met her a couple of times. She was consistently obnoxious, sly, unpleasant but, apparently, attractive because she was so ‘bohemian and artistic’. Nobody liked her, even his longstanding friends and his family. I compared myself to her in the sense that I could not understand how an intelligent, sensible, highly rational man could find her even slightly interesting and attractive. Measured against that yardstick, once I had discovered the affair, my confidence hit as low as it could go. If everything that she had to offer was better than what I had ‘been’ to him for 26 years, I must be the most terrible person alive. There’s something deeply damaging about being left for an ex, especially one who has dumped your spouse twice before. Mutual friends were open-mouthed, including those who had known them when they were a couple. But, with therapy, patience, and rebuilding, I quickly came to see that I had inadvertently become part of the quadrant with her ex-husband. The two of us had been played, we were pawns in a long drawn out, toxic chess game, puppets of two very psychologically unwell individuals with many issues that they were never going to resolve. What happened gave me an opportunity to escape the net and to work on myself. Looking back, I’d been competing, unknowingly, with her for the entire relationship. My failing was to be too decent a human being, and, as the ex said to me during my dumping, I’m just ‘too altruistic’. I compare myself to her favourably: I cannot imagine going through life being that rotten to my core. And that applies to both of them, not just her. Thank you,CL and this community as you all helped me to see sense and get safely out of there.